lol its beyond pathetic at this point.
they are either completely dumb, or wilfully obtuse spencer mouthpieces.
probably both
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Rumor: PS5 Pro Codenamed "Trinity" targeting Late 2024 (some alleged specs leaked)
- Thread starter MisterXDTV
- Start date
- Rumor Platform
lol its beyond pathetic at this point.
they are either completely dumb, or wilfully obtuse spencer mouthpieces.
probably both
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
I hope they do it
. Though cost could be an issue, hence why Sony would have to do further R&D with PSVR tech. I think if Remote Play & PS Link can get to a strong enough level, they can effectively reduce a lot of the on-board hardware in the headset and rely on streaming from the console to the headset, which could bring down the costs for the headset itself.Though for higher-performance models, there would be more processing built into the headset itself. The question is really, what constitutes an entry-level VR/AR headset. What's the minimal spec you'd need for lens resolution, type, audio & mic support etc. while still providing a quality experience without breaking the bank.
I would like to see what Sony could do in that way because, genuinely, I feel that's when they can include a VR headset by default for the system, and you'd see adoption rates skyrocket and devs fully supporting the tech in mind from Day 1.
I've been boycotting Digital Foundry content for months now and that won't be changing anytime in the near or mid future. 'Ya hate to see people ruin their credibility for a paycheck but once it's done there is no turning back. At least NX Gamer is still reputable, even if he's at IGN.
There will always be newer and, at this rate, better alternatives to Digital Foundry on the come up, we just have to spot them and support them as deserved. I'm not even particularly interested in the DF Retro content going forward.
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Thick Thighs Save Lives
NeoGAF's Physical Games Advocate Extraordinaire
Im A Hero Too which was the verified leaker who made multiple correct leaks about Atlus, Sega, and Square Enix (P3R, FF7R & more) has shared on resetera through Angie that Square Enix has access to new PS5 devkits which he assumes are of the "Pro" model. He also mentioned that he could be wrong though so take that info with a grain of salt. :/
Perrott
Member
Sources: Nintendo showed Switch 2 demos at Gamescom | VGC
The company is understood to have held private tech demos, ahead of an expected 2024 launch…
www.videogameschronicle.com
With these news serving as the confirmation that, yes, Switch 2 would be able to run current-gen games, as claimed by ResetEra's Persona leaker, I think it is safe to assume that the report about Square Enix having PS5 Pro dev kits is correct.
And with Switch 2 punching way above than anyone was expecting, I wonder if we should perhaps raise our expectations for the PS5 Pro in some way.
Loxus
Member
DLSS 3 on Switch 2 would do that.Sources: Nintendo showed Switch 2 demos at Gamescom | VGC
The company is understood to have held private tech demos, ahead of an expected 2024 launch…
With these news serving as the confirmation that, yes, Switch 2 would be able to run current-gen games, as claimed by ResetEra's Persona leaker, I think it is safe to assume that the report about Square Enix having PS5 Pro dev kits is correct.
And with Switch 2 punching way above than anyone was expecting, I wonder if we should perhaps raise our expectations for the PS5 Pro in some way.
PS5 Pro with FSR 3 would work wonders.
You should only have die size, node cost and how much Sony is willing to sell it for in mind. Sony will get available CPU and GPU IP from AMD, sprinkle a bit of ""secret sauce"" in there and that will be it. Everything else is asking for disappointment. If I'm being generous, PS5 Pro will cost to the consumer maximum $549, without a disc drive. There is only so much you can fit in there with that BOM.Sources: Nintendo showed Switch 2 demos at Gamescom | VGC
The company is understood to have held private tech demos, ahead of an expected 2024 launch…
With these news serving as the confirmation that, yes, Switch 2 would be able to run current-gen games, as claimed by ResetEra's Persona leaker, I think it is safe to assume that the report about Square Enix having PS5 Pro dev kits is correct.
And with Switch 2 punching way above than anyone was expecting, I wonder if we should perhaps raise our expectations for the PS5 Pro in some way.
The same thing for Switch 2. Unless they put a massive brick battery pack on it, it will not perform how many are hoping for. Power consumption can be counteracted with advanced manufacturing nodes and Nintendo is not paying for those.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
A PS5 Pro with FSR 3?DLSS 3 on Switch 2 would do that.
PS5 Pro with FSR 3 would work wonders.
SenkiDala
Member
Come on don't pretend like upgrading from 1tb to 2tb of storage has no value...
ShaiKhulud1989
Gold Member
Have you saw the current NVME prices? You can have nvme 4 2tb for like 100 bucks, and it would be cheaper for MS in bulk.
Zuzu
Member
Yeah Alex's objections to a PS5 Pro make no sense to me. He says that instead of demanding better hardware console players should instead be asking for games that use the hardware better or are tailored to use the hardware appropriately to get 60fps. That's true, everyone should be demanding better optimisation but why can't we have both? Both better optimisation and an option for better hardware. There is only so far optimisation can go. Some times you just need more horsepower.
Also, if we just demand games be designed for 60fps then graphics fidelity will suffer. And that's where the PS5 Pro comes in. It should allow for a good progression of graphical fidelity while maintaining decently high frame rates whereas the base PS5 will over time become more and more a 30fps box (unless developers just stop pushing graphics fidelity which is not going to happen).
For some of us, we want a console but we don't want to be restricted to 2020 class hardware until 2028. It's just an option and I don't know why he wouldn't welcome that. Of course we also need better optimisation. But why can't we have better hardware as well. Imagine if we said to him: "Nvidia & AMD shouldn't release new graphics cards in 2024 or 2026 but should only release new cards in 2028. PC gamers should just demand that developers optimise their games better on the RTX 40 series & RX 7000 series and wait it out."
He'd probably say that this is silly because PC is designed to be modular and upgradeable. Well why can't console generations also be slightly upgradeable with a mid-gen refresh? Because he likes the idea of one box for a generation? Well I like the idea of two boxes in a generation. I just don't see the strength of his argument.
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You're too nice to Alex Bunganga.
Audiophile
Gold Member
Didn't you hear? If Sony release a PS5 Pro, they will also dispatch ninjas to every base PS5 owners home to stealth-downgrade it in the middle of the night..
Audiophile
Gold Member
I actually think Zen 4c cores on a slim would be a great idea. If they're running a base/compatibility mode on the Pro with the same cores then they'd be able to do it on the slim. But, with using the 4c cores they'd be saving significant space die space (as well as other potential benefits) in addition to the node shrink, in turn further reducing the cost of the slim. One the IP is done, the cost is in the die size and complexity; I doubt the latter will be too much of an issue and the former would make for a sizeable gain.
Daneel Elijah
Member
And I find myself forced to defend him here. His argument was that either the console were overhyped, or the optimisation is shit. Not exactly what was said in this thread about it. I do not think like him and have said more than once that a PS5 Pro will be day one, but his argumend do have some merit. We should not need a Pro version to get what was promised in 2020. The problem is that even if this gen had most games being ultra well optimised, I would still love a PS5 Pro to push games even further. Don't know why he is really against it but when we get the official reveal, and the games that will go with it, he won't be able to hide behind platitutes like this. Either he will be happy about games like Wolverine and GTA 6( a man can dream) or find excuses. It will be fun to watch.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I can sum all of this up for you.
It's because Sony is rumored to do it and MS told them that they supposedly are not, and that the X is the Pro to the S.
The end.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
SEGAvangelist
Member
That would mean dropping the PS5 Standard price. No way they do that with the current rate of sales. My prediction is $699 since this is aimed at a niche market that will gladly pay the price.
NeonGhost
uses 'M$' - What year is it? Not 2002.
Keep smoking that good crack
Rocco Schiavone
Member
They could double humilate them If they also add a disc drive on top.
SEGAvangelist
Member
$100 is not enough of a premium and I don't see a $399 PS5 around the corner. I don't see how that reasoning is crack based.
SEGAvangelist
Member
Isn't the disc drive detachable in the rumors for the PS5 refresh? I imagine it will be the same for a pro model.
saintjules
Member
John also states that AMD does not have anything in their portfolio that would showcase a jump from a technological standpoint to justify a Pro existing.
That being said, I am down for a Pro so as long as 60fps can be a target with ease across a majority of games. Like what is happening now in FFXVI's performance mode, I'd want to see the issue(s) potentially eliminated entirely (if Square Enix would bother with it).
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
SEGAvangelist
Member
My reasoning isn't about production costs and more about market perception. It's clear that PS5 sales aren't slowing down at the current price. Why take a loss on that because of a niche market that wants a mid-gen upgrade at the standard price? It's just dumb business. Sony can charge $699 at launch and then drop the price later when they need to. 2x the power of a popular $499 console sounds like a deal for $699.
Daneel Elijah
Member
Same. We have the PS4 Pro to know what we can gain from it. Only this time all the industry know it too so there will be no excuse for not putting in the work and making games better in the Pro version.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Nor did they last gen, but they were all giddy when the 1X was announced (I wonder what changed? - rhetorical). John and company also don't know shit about customizations that Sony did and do, which made them "deer in the headlights" for over a year of face-offs when they could not grasp why 12 > 10 wasn't running away with them.
Agreed with your second part. Which that, combined with RT customizations by Sony and AMD themselves are likely the reason of its existence, if it indeed does come.
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Loxus
Member
My thoughts are to do the same as Microsoft with the Series S/X refresh.
No PS5 Slim or PS5 Pro and stop manufacturing the normal PS5.
Refresh PS5 with 8 Zen 5 Cores, 60 RDNA4 CUs, add XDNA cores to assist with AI tasks, and make it an MCM chip.
No new dev kits required. Optimizing for the normal PS5 will mean always be stable performance on the PS5 refresh.
Ivan
Member
Digital foundry REALLY gets too much credit and attention. I can't stand people treating them like gods of gaming tech anymore. They demonstrate lack of some basic knowledge, especially in console hardware and with their 1:1 hardware comparisons.
And Bataglia can fuck off with that shittiest PCMR attitude (while laughing at "fanboys" and pretending he's different). When I think about it, Richard too. And John.
You hoped for FSR 3 peasants, well...
And Bataglia can fuck off with that shittiest PCMR attitude (while laughing at "fanboys" and pretending he's different). When I think about it, Richard too. And John.
You hoped for FSR 3 peasants, well...
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Because there is already a $399 PS5?
SEGAvangelist
Member
Are many of these produced? What's the split?
Looking at the Series S vs XSX split.....does it even matter?
Or are we gonna also downplay the XSX too because of the split?
MisterXDTV
Member
Current PS5 disc model is discounted to 450€ in half the world right now....
You don't think they can drop it by 50€ more a year from now???
They are making an hardware revision to make it happen
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SEGAvangelist
Member
My point is it's essentially still a $499 device if the $399 SKU counts for a tiny portion of the sales. I'm actually curious.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
It's entry point is $399. This isn't rocket science. Splits do not negate that.
asdasdasdbb
Member
The PS5 Disc (and the original Digital model) are surely out of production by now. Once it's gone, it's gone.
All you will have is the Slim (& the Pro once it comes out).
As to what they will charge for the external drive... TBD.
But its the exact same console. Even if the split was 95/5 they can still produce the $399 version with no problems if they want.
Its one outer shell and a disc drive. Its not totally different specs.
With how many PS5's have sold I would not be shocked if the PS5 DE was close to or past the XSX in sales.
So again....does it even matter? We cant dismiss the PS5 DE and pretend the same situation doesn't apply to the Series consoles.
We either accept both or reject both.
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SEGAvangelist
Member
I guess you don't get my point. If $499 is the normal going price, why lower it? If 95% of their PS5s are selling at $499 without slowing down, you think they'll release a refresh at $399 and a Pro model with twice the GPU at $499? I don't see that happening. Obviously Black Friday and sales price will drop below retail. I said a long time ago that the incoming detachable disc drive model will be a soft price increase, and that was before the price increase in many markets.
How are they lowering the price...if they currently have a $399 console out right now? If this is the case...the Series consoles are waaaay overpriced. Since the Series S is the main console bought.
Like how the PS5 DE came out of nowhere, whatever they do with the rumored disc drive attachment will hopefully make sense.
My thing is this: right now Sony has $399 and $499 as launch prices of the PS5. They have some room to make a Pro $499. Maybe its with no drive.
We didnt see MS deviate away from $299 and $499 with the leaks, right? I dont think Sony will either.
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SEGAvangelist
Member
My point is that the $399 SKU is not the main SKU. It's a sticker price. My prediction is that the $399 SKU is dropped entirely on announcement of a $499 2tb, disc drive-less refresh. I can see today's Xbox dump strengthening that decision.
Audiophile
Gold Member
It's my understanding that the initial cost to get the ip taped out, stable and up and running is what's higher when producing chips on the newer processes. Once everything is running, considerable cost reductions come in at similar rates as before. Not to mention that the smaller/cooler/more power efficient chips lead to cost savings in the rest of the hardware such as board complexity/voltage regulation requirements, power supply, thermal design/cooling, even packaging size/weight/shipping. The initial outlay has to be taken into account of course, but with each chip revision/version on PS5 (og 7nm, rev 6nm, slim ?nm, Pro etc.) likely seeing scales of ~20m, there's still every reason to revise regularly. And a Pro chip isn't some crazy, impossibly expensive, out there idea.
For MS it's a lot harder. Sony have sold 70% more consoles so have the economies of scale on their side. Not to mention XSS is selling nearly 3-to-1 against XSX. Both Xbox SKUs use different chips while both of Sony's use the same chips. Also, the nature of MS' chip design for XSX likely makes scaling more complex (whether it be smaller revisions of the same or upgraded versions for midgen refreshes).
Despite all the talk of expensive chip fab, Sony have made every decision to maximise their potential for cost reduction and upgraded consoles; which paired with their market lead, puts them in a great position on this front. A Pro/Slim line up by the end of next year with respective prices of $349/$499 or $399/$549 is perfectly reasonable.
For MS it's a lot harder. Sony have sold 70% more consoles so have the economies of scale on their side. Not to mention XSS is selling nearly 3-to-1 against XSX. Both Xbox SKUs use different chips while both of Sony's use the same chips. Also, the nature of MS' chip design for XSX likely makes scaling more complex (whether it be smaller revisions of the same or upgraded versions for midgen refreshes).
Despite all the talk of expensive chip fab, Sony have made every decision to maximise their potential for cost reduction and upgraded consoles; which paired with their market lead, puts them in a great position on this front. A Pro/Slim line up by the end of next year with respective prices of $349/$499 or $399/$549 is perfectly reasonable.
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Physiognomonics
Member
But this is going to be around that level at least for rasterization.
PS5 Pro APU will supposedly be based on 8700xt, not 7800xt. This going to be a quite different architecture actually. But yes the unknown is RT level.
No, the wafers on the newer processes are considerably more expensive. Ian Cutress at Anandtech heard from his sources that a TSMC 6nm 300 mm^2 wafer was around $10,000, and a 5nm wafer was around $17000. So that's a 70% cost increase for making a chip of the same size on the newer process. This is part of the reason why 5nm PC GPUs are so expensive, and why companies are looking at chiplets. Based on these wafer prices, a 60CU 7800 XT should cost ~$100 for the silicon compared with ~$58 for the 6nm PS5 APU.
Perrott
Member
Which is exactly what's going to happen, kinda.
Later this year, the new PS5 model will replace both current PS5 SKUs with a $399.99, all-digital console with an optional disc drive add-on available for $99.99.
The PS5 Pro will likely launch at either $499.99 or $549.99 in an all-digital form. Want to play physical games? You can pay another hundred bucks for it.
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Mr.Phoenix
Member
Thank god, you are not the one making these decisions.
That sticker price you are talking about happens to be what I paid for my PS5 two or so years ago. So it's only in your head that the price isn't real.
And then there is the fact that the PS5 refresh, would cost less to make than the PS5 currently costs, so even at $399 (without a disc drive mind you), they would likely be selling it at a profit. Lastly, you act like this is the first time a pro console is being made, we have seen firsthand how Sony handles pro pricing, so there is precedent to suggest that it would be priced similarly to the most expensive PS5 at $499. If anything, this time they are `cheating` because they would release that $499 pro console without a disc drive.
People lie you seem to forget that with consoles, it is more important to sell them as quickly as possible than to make profits from the boxes.
Lagspike_exe
Member
If MS launches the $499 6nm refresh against this, they are getting smoked.