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Russia begins Invasion of Ukraine

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Maestr0

Member
The bullet was dodged for the good of France and the world. They should investigate Le Pen after a while to check where is money coming from...

Emmanuel Macron is elected president of the French republic​

renderTimingPixel.png

francetvinfo.fr/electi...
That's the first part, next is the legislative in june
 

TwinB242

Member


You gotta love how delusional the Russians are. If they actually try to take a large city like Kryvyi Rih they are going to get routed as badly as they were in the North around Kyiv, if not worse.
 
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Atrus

Gold Member


You gotta love how delusional the Russians are. If they actually try to take a large city like Kryvyi Rih they are going to get routed as badly as they were in the North around Kyiv, if not worse.


Let’s hope this is an ego thing for Putin. Sacrifice an immense number of Russians in futile attacks because Putin wants to take Zelenskyy’s home town.
 

akimbo009

Gold Member
Nah, let them freeze. Screw your poor grandparents, they probably deserve it anyway... What's more important is that we can satisfy the useless self-righteous reductive virtue signaling from a couple of obsessive posters on a video-game forum.
F*ck Europe and let's cripple it to the point of becoming completely unable to act or provide any kind of help, that will certainly show Putin.

Forget about the complexities and intricacies of geopolitical power balance, only black & white thinking allowed here! Kinda sad how some people use this tragedy to stroke their own ego.
Donating some cash apparently gives you the right to put yourself on a pedestal.

/s

Last I checked it's totally fine to critique governments and leaders. No one is putting themselves on a pedestal, but rightly calling shit it out. You're the one trying to shut down conversation, and using a "reductive" argument to prevent honest debate.

And fun fact, if Germany weren't acting like shit bags on a bunch of other fronts then maybe folks would be a bit more patient. However, Germany IS acting like shit bags - have been shit bags leading up to war in their strategic decision making and in their absolute lack of support for Ukraine. Kind of done with their bullshit excuses on a myriad of issues. So yeah, fuck Germany - world will still turn if their gas gets cut back. Promise and also promise Europe will also keep functioning with Germany taking steps to reduce their dependence on Russia. Call it austerity for the security of European independence.

But the reality is that Germany actually wants Russian alliances. It's behaved this way for decades, Merkle gave the US the middle finger on her way out the door with Nordstream, and believed a unified Europe and Russia would provide a multi-polar security construct to curtail the US. They've also crawled into bed with China, and have totally sold out your continent and Ukraine is just another in a string of failures.

Got to love Lithuania, and the Baltics for calling a spade a spade though. They're clearly sick of France and Germany's bullshit.

But yes, Germany needs to sacrifice as they have lectured so many for so long. Sorry you don't like that POV, and it's not virtual signalling - it's sick and tired of y'all being shitty.
 

FunkMiller

Banned
Nah, let them freeze. Screw your poor grandparents, they probably deserve it anyway... What's more important is that we can satisfy the useless self-righteous reductive virtue signaling from a couple of obsessive posters on a video-game forum.
F*ck Europe and let's cripple it to the point of becoming completely unable to act or provide any kind of help, that will certainly show Putin.

Forget about the complexities and intricacies of geopolitical power balance, only black & white thinking allowed here! Kinda sad how some people use this tragedy to stroke their own ego.
Donating some cash apparently gives you the right to put yourself on a pedestal.

/s

Blimey. Calm down.

Nobody would freeze. Industry and construction would have to be closed down, allowing the gas supplies still coming in to be routed to heat people’s houses. Yes, it would heavily affect Germany’s economy, as well as others who have become too reliant on Russia, but nothing else. Europe would be fine. Nobody is going to die. And it would help Ukraine. Who are dying. A lot.

Stop immediately defending a poor policy decision just because it’s your country. The rest of us have had to swallow terrible policies of our countries over the years. Now it’s your turn. We’re facing the worst war atrocities since the Second World War, and Germany won’t sacrifice its economy to stop them. That’s the fact of the matter.

Cutting off Russian gas would not collapse Europe, we’ll be fine, but it would heavily affect one of the richest nation in it. You may not like that, but stop trying to claim it would be some kind of continent wide disaster. It wouldn’t be.

And stop pretending the calls for Germany to do more are just from ‘a couple of obsessive posters on a video game forum’… it’s becoming a very widely held consensus from politicians, academics and journalists from across the political and geographic spectrum.
 
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One of the targets was an oil depot though. For a false flag it would make more sense to choose somewhere that would result in civilian casualties.

Maybe someone won to the army false flag? Imagine someone told a resistance to attack the oil refinery, this could do 2 things:

1) Save the civilians from a false Attack
2) Damage Ruzzia war

Not saying it is true, more likely wishful thinking.
 
One of the Fires seems to be at, Or near, A military storage facility. Seen some tweets mention it, and looking at google earth it certainly looks like it could be.

One of the targets was an oil depot though. For a false flag it would make more sense to choose somewhere that would result in civilian casualties.
there are a few homes relatively close to one of them. 100-200meters
 

FunkMiller

Banned
One of the targets was an oil depot though. For a false flag it would make more sense to choose somewhere that would result in civilian casualties.

I think any time we see an attack being carried out on a facility that hampers Russia's war effort if it's destroyed, we can probably rule out a false flag attack.

This is more likely Russian and/or Ukrainians, possibly with the assistance of outsiders.
 
Looks like Germany may be getting chilly. Direct on the pipeline path.

That is direct to Germany. Now let's watch them squirm and say they always planned to stop buying Russian oil.

Edit: Reading I think that pipeline only does 1.2 million barrels a day, Russia must have more to send to Europe.
 
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akimbo009

Gold Member
And another aide package and ammo for Ukraine post-US diplomatic meeting. Looks like US diplomats will also start doing day trips to Lviv from Poland along with an official ambassador for Ukraine being announced.

 

Ozriel

M$FT


It’s gotta sting for Ukraine to use Stingers or Starstreak missiles on these ‘cheap’ POS drones.

I guess taking out the eyes in the sky saves lives, so it’s worth the trade. You won’t get a KA-52 every time.

*cheap as per cheaply constructed. Heard the suppliers charge Russia $120k per drone.
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Btw, tonight the Ukrainians shelled Chernobaivka airport for the 19th? time. This time they got 3 choppers and several MLRS (those trucks with rocket launchers fitted).

Wtf is going on with the Kherson Russian command.

 
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Doczu

Member
Blimey. Calm down.

Nobody would freeze. Industry and construction would have to be closed down, allowing the gas supplies still coming in to be routed to heat people’s houses. Yes, it would heavily affect Germany’s economy, as well as others who have become too reliant on Russia, but nothing else. Europe would be fine. Nobody is going to die. And it would help Ukraine. Who are dying. A lot.

Cutting off Russian gas would not collapse Europe, we’ll be fine, but it would heavily affect one of the richest nation in it. You may not like that, but stop trying to claim it would be some kind of continent wide disaster. It wouldn’t be.
You must be really short sighted to think that directoy cutting off dependence on russian fuels and gas would not have a dramatiic effect not only on the economy, but on the society as a whole.
You are wrong on so many levels that i'm just going to say that you sit on your fucking island and transfer some cash to the UA and feel better about it.
 

Banjo64

cumsessed
There’s nothing better than when Ukraine strike inside Russia. Got to love that the intel for the location of these depots would have 100% come from the Anglosphere.
 

FunkMiller

Banned
You must be really short sighted to think that directoy cutting off dependence on russian fuels and gas would not have a dramatiic effect not only on the economy, but on the society as a whole.
You are wrong on so many levels that i'm just going to say that you sit on your fucking island and transfer some cash to the UA and feel better about it.

Of course it would have a dramatic effect. No one is denying that. But the damage would be worth it to stop Ukrainians being killed in war atrocities. That’s the point here. A damaged German economy is a small price to pay, and one it should pay, given its horrendous cozying up to Putin for decades, and its arrogance at ignoring multiple warnings from many sources.

And fuck me, the boot’s on the other foot when it’s Germany who’s screwed up, isn’t it? 😂

Where was this determination not to ruin an economy when Greece was forced into massive austerity by the German government during the euro crisis? I guess it’s okay when it’s somebody else’s economy, eh?
 
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Of course it would have a dramatic effect. No one is denying that. But the damage would be worth it to stop Ukrainians being killed in war atrocities. That’s the point here. A damaged German economy is a small price to pay, and one it should pay, given its horrendous cozying up to Putin for decades.


You know this is wrong as it has already been explained to you numerous times. Yet you keep ignoring all the facts in order to endlessly harp on about the same crap.

The European peace project was always about ensuring peace through socio-economic cooperation and mutual interdependence. That is how the EU managed to bond eastern and western Europe together. Strengthening these bonds is the reason why Russia remains pretty much isolated and without much support. That is also the reason why I want Ukraine to join the EU, even if the conditions for membership are not fulfilled.

Europe's cooperation with Russia was always in the hope that the same might happen here too. I mean, which country has an active interest in waging war against their own clients? Considering how Russia's economy is going down the drain right now, the war they started will cost them much more than they might be willing to admit. If you want to guarantee peace, you must make war the more costly option.

Also, Europe has no army of its own and most western European countries were in a constant process of disarmament. How else can you reinforce peace other than through economic cooperation? Had Steinmeier and Merkel known that Putin would be capable of these atrocities, I'm sure they would never have pursued this foreign policy with Russia.

The refusal to let Ukraine join NATO was purely to appease Russia and who knows, had their membership not been refused maybe Russia would have invaded much sooner.

In hindsight peaceful co-existence through compromise turned out to be a futile hope. Certainly not as long as Putin is in charge. That still does not change the fact the Europe's best hope for peace remains mutual cooperation and economic interdependency.



There is plenty of analysis available of what would happen if Germany would spontaneously cut itself off from Russian gas imports. This is not only a question about "being poorer" but about severely crippling your own basic supply facilities to the point of not even having basic goods anymore. Germany would essentially collapse (socially and economically) and trigger a recession that would endanger all of the European Union. We would basically hand Putin the EU on a silver platter and weaken one of the main things that is keeping Russia contained right now.

Here's the breakdown:

F1NQXLd.png


As you can see, the production of food, basic building materials and chemistry products (including medicine) would basically cease to function.

How is that in the interest of Ukraine? Or are we forgetting that after the war, there will be the question of rebuilding Ukraine. How are we supposed to achieve that if the EU lies in shambles? This is not a mere question of turning your thermostat down a notch or two. Already European countries are suffering major recession due to inflation, rising energy prices and corona restrictions.

For sure, in hindsight, there's a lot to criticize and both Germany and the EU are in the process of analyzing these faults. But this thread is about to devolve into simplistic political tribalism with some people taking this humanitarian crisis as a pretext to air their personal grievances with the EU. Criticize all you want, but lets maybe not put emotion above what is reasonable.

What Russia is doing right now is beyond reason and against their own best interests. Economic cooperation would have been much better in the long term. Our only fault was to assume that Putin would be a rational actor. Let's not forget, Putin is the one invading Ukraine and the war atrocities are committed in his name and his name only.


And fuck me, the boot’s on the other foot when it’s Germany who’s screwed up, isn’t it? 😂

Where was this determination not to ruin an economy when Greece was forced into massive austerity by the German government during the euro crisis?

F*cking hell, I know you're the king of bad analogies, but comparing the self-inflicted financial crisis of Greece to an outright war with Russia is just way out there. I'm really not into the mood to discuss Greece, suffice to say that what you are doing is comparing apples to oranges. Not to mention that Greece has made an exceptionally fast recovery, so quite clearly those austerity policies have worked.
 

Doczu

Member
Of course it would have a dramatic effect. No one is denying that. But the damage would be worth it to stop Ukrainians being killed in war atrocities. That’s the point here. A damaged German economy is a small price to pay, and one it should pay, given its horrendous cozying up to Putin for decades, and its arrogance at ignoring multiple warnings from many sources.
How hortible this may sound: no, it would not help and it wouldn't be worth it.
I am all for France and Germany doing more in this crisis but by destroying your own economy you would play right into Putins hand by creating societal unrest and political distrust.
Who do you think would gain here? You'd want the goverments replaced with more eurosceptic, isolationist, anti war and (dare i say) pro Russia parties and groups? Think Hungary but on a wider scale. Cause thst would lead to it and no sane person would want it.
 

FunkMiller

Banned
F*cking hell, I know you're the king of bad analogies, but comparing the self-inflicted financial crisis of Greece to an outright war with Russia is just way out there. I'm really not into the mood to discuss Greece, suffice to say that what you are doing is comparing apples to oranges. Not to mention that Greece has made an exceptionally fast recovery, so quite clearly those austerity policies have worked.

The German government forced Greece into economic hardship to prop up the euro. It refuses to allow the same to happen to their economy to help Ukraine and punish Russia.

You can type a thousand words and a million insults and me, or anybody else on this forum, but those facts do not change.

Oh, and why couldn’t Germany make a similar fast recovery?
 
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FunkMiller

Banned
How hortible this may sound: no, it would not help and it wouldn't be worth it.
I am all for France and Germany doing more in this crisis but by destroying your own economy you would play right into Putins hand by creating societal unrest and political distrust.
Who do you think would gain here? You'd want the goverments replaced with more eurosceptic, isolationist, anti war and (dare i say) pro Russia parties and groups? Think Hungary but on a wider scale. Cause thst would lead to it and no sane person would want it.

Nowhere have I read in any analysis that stopping Russian oil would destroy the German economy.

Damage, yes. Destroy, no.

Political distrust? Polls seem to suggest stopping Russian oil is actually quite popular with the German people…
 
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The German government forced Greece into economic hardship to prop up the euro. It refuses to allow the same to happen to their economy to help Ukraine and punish Russia.

You can type a thousand words and a million insults and me, or anybody else on this forum, but those facts do not change.
Sure, Germany had a hand in it, but one of the main reasons of what happened to Greece was also because the two richest groups in the country - naval shipyards and the Church - were tax exempt, which didn't help. But I am definitely no specialist in this matter.
 
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