NoLootBoxDev
Member
an idiot talking about idiotic...
Russia vows response to America's "idiotic" actions over Ukraine
newsweek.com/russia...
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Russia begins Invasion of Ukraine
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newsweek.com/russia...
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Imagine how much money you save without those Kremlin hacks.
FunkMiller
Banned
Hmmm. This doesn’t sound like the actions of someone all that worried about what response Russia will make to such a massive level of support.
Ukraine will effectively become a western allied nation, bristling with American weaponry, right on Vlad’s border.
NoLootBoxDev
Member
They Finally show their end game (stupid by the way)
newsweek.com/russia...
Russia, Belarus form new USSR, call on ex-Soviet nations to join
newsweek.com/russia...
FunkMiller
Banned
It’s going to actually, properly save people’s lives, and in the long run make the world a safer place.
Bread lines are very cool.They Finally show their end game (stupid by the way)
Russia, Belarus form new USSR, call on ex-Soviet nations to join
newsweek.com/russia...
I am all for saving lives but their plan for the $33b apparently includes funding independent media and activists in Ukraine. That seems a bit unnecessary. They are also trying to offset the weak fall harvest now. Someone said the military package is for 5 months of fighting? I am confused why this needs to be given out as a lump sum right away. Couldn't we look at what happens in the fall and deal with it then? Things don't move that slow that you need to pay for shit 6 months in advance. Seems better to just tackle things as they come and just approve smaller aid packages over time. But then again I'm no economist.
Please don't take my word for it but this is just me speaking out loud about shit I heard from others. I hope they release a document showing a breakdown of where this money is going exactly.
FunkMiller
Banned
The amount of people in America on social media whining about this 33 billion shows me that a lot of folks haven’t really grasped the size, scale, and seriousness of this situation…
Buggy Loop
Member
Wow, yeah. 33B.
Biden asks Congress for $33 billion to support Ukraine through September
President Joe Biden has asked Congress for $33 billion to fund both humanitarian and military aid to Ukraine through September of this year.www.cnbc.com
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WASHINGTON — President Joe Biden will ask Congress for $33 billion to fund both humanitarian and military aid to Ukraine through September of this year, senior administration officials said Thursday.
The massive aid package will be accompanied by a proposal to Congress that it amend several longstanding criminal laws to make it easier for the U.S. to seize the assets of sanctioned Russian oligarchs, sell the seized property and funnel the proceeds to the Ukrainians.
The $33 billion includes a request for $20.4 billion in additional security and military assistance for Ukraine as well as additional money to fund U.S. efforts to bolster European security in cooperation with NATO allies.
“It’s not cheap. But caving to aggression is going to be more costly if we allow it to happen,” Biden said Thursday.
The administration said this is intended to equip Kyiv and European partners with additional artillery, armored vehicles and anti-armor and anti-air capabilities, accelerate cyber capabilities and advanced air defense systems, and help clear landmines and improvised explosive devices.
In a letter accompanying his request to Congress, Biden warned lawmakers that the cost of failing to check Russian President Vladimir Putin would be far greater than the current policy proposal.
“Though we expect our NATO allies and EU partners will be making even larger collective contributions than the United States, there is no doubt that continuing to support Ukraine in this war against Russian aggression will require a substantial additional investment on our part,” the president wrote.
“What I want to make clear to the Congress and the American people is this: the cost of failing to stand up to violent aggression in Europe has always been higher than the cost of standing firm against such attacks,” Biden added.
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So roughly 2 weeks worth out of the yearly US military budget. Not bad!
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DeepBreath87
Banned
It’s enough alone to give Ukraine the 11th largest ANNUAL military budget on the planet and to be spent over less than half a year. All to a country notorious for corruption and fraud. All with little to no oversight. During record inflation and emerging economic stagnation in the US.
Forgive me if I think it’s a bit presumptuous to give Ukraine that kind of money. Not to mention, the idea that “independent media” is a part of this is a farce. Nothing says independent like direct funding from the US government.
I think it’s completely fair to question whether this level of investment is advisable or necessary.
akimbo009
Gold Member
Stop the pearl clutching.
FunkMiller
Banned
Of course it’s necessary. Russia presents an existential and practical threat to western democracy, the rule of law and humanitarianism. They are a pariah state, intent on committing war atrocities. Your theoretical problems with this funding are comprehensively overridden by the actual, real problems that have arisen due to this barbaric and illegal war.
The package is primarily, but not solely for Ukraine. 1/4 of it is direct cash to Ukraine. The rest is for purchase of military assets and so forth for reinforcing Ukraine and NATO allies.
akimbo009
Gold Member
Yes but do you trust them to use that money to buy guns to defend themselves or just corruptly spend it on condos, yachts, and blow? Hear the lux scene is huge in Ukraine right about now.
NoLootBoxDev
Member
well another one goes to Putin blacklist
So this is how they boost morale?
www.dailymail.co.uk
'Sisters for Victory' don nurses' outfits with Russian 'Z' emblem
Russian social media influencers and models posed by tanks dressed in nurses' uniforms and donning the Z sign in a crude effort to boost war propaganda in snaps for Instagram.
FunkMiller
Banned
I mean, look at this dozy cunt right here:
What does this smooth brain think will happen if Russia is not prevented from achieving its goals in Ukraine? Does he think good old Uncle Vlad will sit back, happy with his victory, and won't bother the rest of us again?
Prolong the war eh, dickchips? So you're just happy for Russia to win? You think your cost of living issues are bigger or more important than getting shot in the back of the head and ending up in a ditch? You think Russia being in a strong position moving forward doesn't threaten your cozy little Twitter fuelled existence?
Cowardice, greed, self interest, stupidity.
What does this smooth brain think will happen if Russia is not prevented from achieving its goals in Ukraine? Does he think good old Uncle Vlad will sit back, happy with his victory, and won't bother the rest of us again?
Prolong the war eh, dickchips? So you're just happy for Russia to win? You think your cost of living issues are bigger or more important than getting shot in the back of the head and ending up in a ditch? You think Russia being in a strong position moving forward doesn't threaten your cozy little Twitter fuelled existence?
Cowardice, greed, self interest, stupidity.
daveonezero
Banned
Are you flying over to fight Russians?
Did you fly to Iraq or Afghanistan when the US invaded in the name of “democracy” and “peace keeping”?
He is stanch anti war
Every thing you are saying has lead to the worst conflicts in history. Supporting one government to go to war with another to get men killed is never good for the young men women and children in any country
Are you so scared of authoritarian government you want to go fight one halfway across the globe while your own country burns and is taken over by like minded psychos much like Puting?
The US is a kleptocratic oligarchy waging wars in dozens of countries.
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BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
If you sort of aggregate all of their distorted reasonings for being against the aid, it additionally shows how very little they must understand about what all is causing worldwide inflation, and how little this $33bn actually is as an investment in global security and stability (the world is getting a lot for this $33bn). I mean, nine times out of ten they don't even understand how the funding is being broken down and invested in the first place.
Furthermore, it's also absolutely predictable who is coming out against this aid package to Ukraine. They even end up parroting bits of Russian propaganda talking points while they're at it. It pretty much narrows down their chosen sources of misinformation.
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FunkMiller
Banned
Tell that to the Jews in the 1930s, genius.
...and I pay my taxes so my government can render assistance to countries being bombed by a bunch of barbaric cunts... and I'm more than happy to do so.
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FunkMiller
Banned
Yep. Completely and utterly clueless in every single respect. I'm fascinated by just how indoctrinated people are by the propaganda being fired at them. Even in such a black and white, obvious situation, where it's very clear what's actually going on, and what the stakes are, not just for Ukraine, but for all of us...
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daveonezero
Banned
You have cognitive dissonance if you think your tax dollars were well spent killing a million Iraqi citizens.
And crazy if you don’t think the US is capable of repeating what the Nazis did.
Your US government is disarming citizens just like the Nazis yet you are worried about a country half a globe away.
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FunkMiller
Banned
Okay tovarisch.
dotnotbot
Member
Read about what Russia does on occupied territories. THAT is really bad for women and children.
Airbus Jr
Banned
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akimbo009
Gold Member
daveonezero
Banned
so are depleted uranium munitions.
You are not any better. You want innocent Russians To die
War is never good for anyone but the most powerful.
That’s why I’m against this war. That’s why I was against the last and why I’m against the next one. You are wrong for wanting your government to take from people to just wage another ideological war.
The People of Urkraine, modern US progressives are realizing now why the US has the 2a
If you were so sure this is a good thing why were you standing wage region years ago? What changed?
Yeah it goes along with non aggression.
Non interventionist.
Self defense is a human right. Don’t let anyone take it away from you or outsource your defense to someone else. nATO did that and their plans failed.
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DeepBreath87
Banned
I think it’s cute to pretend not to understand that Ukraine is notoriously one of the most corrupt countries in Europe and that reputation is well earned. But sure, let’s give them billions of dollars free and clear because they’re fighting Russia, so who cares, right? It’s just a few billion after all.
They don’t even try to make sense of some of the obvious contradictions, like the US government funding “independent media” which would sort of make it not exactly “independent” would it?
But who cares about that? It’s probably just a few million and who cares if a few million of the tens of billions gets skimmed off the top going into who-know’s pocket. It’s a small price to pay to fight Russia in the 2 eastern most provinces of Ukraine. The whole world depends on it. And if that means we have to funnel insane numbers of dollars to a notoriously corrupt country with no strings attached, we should do it without even questioning because anything less makes you a Putin apologist.
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daveonezero
Banned
Or the fact the US has an awful track record supplying weapons to extremists.
It is almost as if they do it on purpose. Todays ally are tomorrows insurgents.
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dotnotbot
Member
So you think surrendering to Hitler was the best option?
Airbus Jr
Banned
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akimbo009
Gold Member
Are you claiming Ukrainians, who are being attacked by Russia, are extremists?
FunkMiller
Banned
Would you say that given you're so against war, that you'd be happy if Ukraine would just surrender and let Putin have what he wants?
So... you know... the horrible war can stop?
FunkMiller
Banned
dotnotbot
Member
And then the peaceful rapes and genocides can happen.
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DeepBreath87
Banned
Yeah. The position of expecting some level of responsibility from my government is a radical position these days. If I don’t reflexively support emergency funding to the tune of the 11th largest military budget on earth straight to a country with very well documented corruption and fraud issues, I must be shilling for Vlad. But I don’t know what I’m worried about. The US government has such a great track record when it comes to fiscal stewardship…
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Airbus Jr
Banned
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akimbo009
Gold Member
Why do you keep thinking that Ukraine is going to squander their success because of corruption. They are literally fighting for survival, and you think folks are skimming things off and accusing them of undeserving of the means to protect themselves... And yes, it's a shit ton of money and arms to provide overwhelming force to ensure victory cause Russia cant be allowed to win.
And keep saying they are corrupt, extremists while they get raped and genocided. Let's be really pensive now.
FunkMiller
Banned
Do you not think that this has been carefully thought through? You're talking like they're just throwing the money out with no due diligence about how it's going to be used.
Also, you do get how big and serious this war is, don't you? Potentially to your personal freedom and liberty in the long term?
Your doubts about potential corruption on the part of the Ukrainians (ridiculous in and of itself, because they are literally fighting for their survival), really should be completely overwhelmed by your fear of what the world will look like if Russia is allowed any kind of victory in this situation.
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DeepBreath87
Banned
And there it is. How is this relevant to what he said? What he said isn’t even controversial. It’s a fact. The US has had a bad habit of supplying weapons that end up in the hands of the people the US military ends up fighting themselves down the line. That’s not some foreign disinformation bullshit. That’s historical fact.
So no, the two eastern most provinces in Ukraine are not an existential threat to the western world. Russia has clearly demonstrated they have no ability to project power on the kind of scale you’re talking about. They couldn’t take a moderately sized country on their own border and have lost thousands of troops and pieces of equipment only to be relegated to trying to squeeze out a consolation prize in the form of two provinces they already effectively controlled to begin with.
Now a lot of that has to do with the aid they have been provided, and I support aiding them. But the idea that this has been “carefully thought through”? I know you’re not American, so it can be forgiven that you don’t know this, but our government doesn’t operate that way.
What they do is budget outrageous sums of money and just shovel it out the door. That’s why the government itself estimates that 10% of the $800 billion dollar paycheck protection program during covid was given out to fraudulent actors. They estimate that $90-$400 billion of the unemployment relief was fraudulent during covid as well.
So I guess, if we’re just fucking giving money to every crook and scumbag on earth, there are certainly worse ways we could do it than trying to also help Ukraine. But I am extremely tired of watching our country be looted out from under us because the people in charge don’t give a shit about being responsible. So do I trust the Ukrainians? You guys act like unscrupulous people don’t take advantage of war to their own ends. And Ukraine has a well documented history of corruption. So I don’t exactly expect anything different now.
Airbus Jr
Banned
Says the guy who said corruption is more important issue than human lives, people getting raped, shot in the head etc
Wish i can show you my gore picture of 9 years old geting her mouth stuffed with her own underwear and raped by russian soldier, people with their stomach out, bunch of burnt naked women body piled together but evilore and some mods removed my gory picture earlier here even with nsfw tags
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DeepBreath87
Banned
Oh yes, because not giving Ukraine $33 billion is tantamount to condoning rape and murder. Fuck off with that bullshit.
Airbus Jr
Banned
Youre too busy with money and decided to ignores humanity
33$ billion is nothinburger compared to what happened there
Shows you where your priority are
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DeepBreath87
Banned
Maybe it should be $330 billion instead because I care 10x as much as you do!
But no. You’re right. Why shouldn’t I just assume that the US government is being responsible? They’ve never been wasteful on an astronomical scale before, right? And why would I question the Ukrainian government? They’ve never been anything but honest and trustworthy.
How dare I wonder how much of that $33 billion actually makes a meaningful difference on the ground after it’s filtered through all the greedy, outstretched hands waiting to take their piece? I’m sure at least half of it will go to something good. And if 16 billion makes it to where it belongs, I’ll consider it a success and a small price to pay for a clean conscience. I’m sure our government has priced in the corruption already anyway.
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Airbus Jr
Banned
Youre the type of person who only cares about your own turf safety
Useless point talking to you about helping a country under invasion cos you always think it wont benefit you or some sort
You will just came up with more excuses etc
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DeepBreath87
Banned
I know right? Why can’t I just blindly go along with giving $33 billion to a country with a clear pattern of corrupt behavior? Why should it matter whether half the money gets stolen as long as some of it does something good? I’ll try to be a better cheerleader next time.
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