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[Buggy Loop]

This is all just warring in the end. If you don't like a game due to [reasons], you can easily find something woke about it to cry about and claim it's garbage, or "slop" as you put it (funny how you seem to have no problem with some of the most egregious open world ubislop stuff out there).

Lol?

Such as?

Do tell James

I played through the entirety of SM2 and the MJ stuff, gay/deaf side missions, etc. are like 1% of the game. The rest is playing through one set piece after set piece against badass spider-man villains. If that's never appealed to you, fine, but the discussion constantly gets diverted into the most minuscule aspects of the entire games.

Peoples in that thread called you out because you said you didn’t see it

I mean cmon

If you just didn’t open the door, nobody would call you out. You enjoyed the game. Good for you.

I have Horizon zero dawn and Spider-Man on PC. Both convinced me that I don’t want the sequels. What’s warring here? I spend hard earned money on those games. Not my cup of tea. Less and less I like open world Ubisoft recipe.

So I’m really curious on the Ubisoft slop you want to tag on me haha

 

[David Ricardo]

Do people not know Mansa Musa is a real person or something? How can this be possible?

From wikipedia: "The date of Musa's birth is unknown, but he appears to have been a young man in 1324"

KCD2 takes place in 1403.

In any case, it´s the same shit as with Yasuke. There once was 1 person of that race in the fxcking continent, and he happens to be where you are, he is integral to the story, he tells you how much more civilized his people are and all that jazz.
Looking under every stone to find a justification to include a character in the game for political reasons is pure wokeness.

The game doesn´t have much woke. Only that, the antisemite attacks and the having gay sex with boys part. But it does definitely have content included for political reasons (DEI), which means wokeness.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Lol?

Such as?

Do tell James



Peoples in that thread called you out because you said you didn’t see it

I mean cmon

If you just didn’t open the door, nobody would call you out. You enjoyed the game. Good for you.

I have Horizon zero dawn and Spider-Man on PC. Both convinced me that I don’t want the sequels. What’s warring here? I spend hard earned money on those games. Not my cup of tea. Less and less I like open world Ubisoft recipe.

So I’m really curious on the Ubisoft slop you want to tag on me haha

BOTW is one of the most egregious cases of open world "slop" as you put it, with tons of checklist stuff/towers/deku nuts and simple shrines scattered ad nauseum throughout the world, as though it's any different than many other open world games. Doesn't help that the world is absolutely massive and traversing it is a slog.

But I enjoyed the game in-spite of these aspects, just like I don't mind them in other games.

 

[Bernardougf]

And you'll have the same reasoning for the other side for sure right? right?

And how do you calculate the damage on KCD 2 then? What CCU or sales it could have gotten if those channels didn't have massive views and comment sections filled with peoples saying they are boycotting? This is just telling us that there's enough brain cells remaining in the community that a game can still find success even when boycotted by both sides. Warhorse is not the kind of company that pours $200M budget into a game either they are still rooted in their indie roots so they'll be fine. But its a matter of time that a game just gets circled for the wrong reasons and a studio closes.

Buddy what boycott?? Nobody is prohibiting anyone from buying the game... games are bought basically online in anonymity...theres nobody outside nobody's house with a pitch fork ... you are really projecting.

If you dont like antiwoke content on youtube or forums I have a wild suggestion to you.. dont watch it
.. The same way I always ignored everything pushing woke and only step on resetera eventually to laugh at them.

Cry me a river.

 

[Bernardougf]

BOTW is one of the most egregious cases of open world "slop" as you put it, with tons of checklist stuff/towers/deku nuts and simple shrines scattered ad nauseum throughout the world, as though it's any different than many other open world games. Doesn't help that the world is absolutely massive and traversing it is a slog.

But I enjoyed the game in-spite of these aspects, just like I don't mind them in other games.

We found common ground ... top 3 most overrated game of all time. Easily

 

[Humdinger]

I agree with the video, for the most part. I've been anti-woke since 2018 (politically), and so naturally I dislike it when I find it in videogames. However, what is happening with the anti-woke crowd in videogames lately is disturbing. It feels more like mob mentality than anything else. People don't seem to be thinking with any sort of nuance or perspective. It's just "you're with us or you're against us." If you dissent, you will be branded a heretic and a traitor (e.g., Mack at WaB).

The part I disagreed with in the video was where he equated woke and anti-woke, said they were basically two sides of the same coin. A lot of people say that, but to believe it, you have to ignore context. There is a massive gulf between woke and anti-woke in terms of power, influence, and social/media control. You can't equate something that has deep roots in government, academia, the arts, and the media as being on the same level as a bunch of disgruntled gamers.

However, the anti-woke do exhibit some of the same behaviors that the woke do - namely, hyperreactivity to a narrow band of stimuli, tunnel vision (focus on small detail, loss of perspective), groupthink, intolerance for dissent, and a moralizing tone. Not all of them, but plenty.

I find myself stepping back from the anti-woke position I have taken in the past. I don't want to be associated with people who are behaving like this. I have lost confidence in their "leadership," such as it is, and I don't like a lot of the dynamics I see happening.

 

[Buggy Loop]

BOTW is one of the most egregious cases of open world "slop" as you put it, with tons of checklist stuff/towers/deku nuts and simple shrines scattered ad nauseum throughout the world, as though it's any different than many other open world games. Doesn't help that the world is absolutely massive and traversing it is a slog.

But I enjoyed the game in-spite of these aspects, just like I don't mind them in other games.

Ouf there’s a long list of reasons that BOTW exploration mechanics have nothing to do with Ubisoft recipe, Deku nuts is a weak argument, there’s no icons or anything of the sort to collect them and are useless.

But regardless

I could not finish ToTK as you can surely find my post around here and I hope to god the next Zelda does not continue in this direction.

BOTW is 7 years ago. That’s all you could find?

 

[ResilientBanana]

Meanwhile, we have countless Twitter posts of people that lean heavy on DEI with plots on how to cancel, ruin reputations, and make people unhireable under the highly toxic guise of being inclusive. The worst anti-wokers do is simply don’t buy a game that doesn’t appeal to them. From there all the woke people chastise people that don’t want to play these games saying they are against woke politics and calling them out for being transphobic, incels, or cis-gendered white men or some shit.

Well fuck that shit. There’s a reason gaming is where it is today and it was because people made games and left the politics out of it. Now every game has to tackle some sort of shitty stapled on type of inclusion that has nothing to do with the story and it’s stupid. There isn’t a need to know or care that someone is non-binary when there is evil afoot. Sexuality and gender identity plays second fiddle to the dire worlds we are trying to save.

 

[Wolfpact1983]

From wikipedia: "The date of Musa's birth is unknown, but he appears to have been a young man in 1324"

KCD2 takes place in 1403.

In any case, it´s the same shit as with Yasuke. There once was 1 person of that race in the fxcking continent, and he happens to be where you are, he is integral to the story, he tells you how much more civilized his people are and all that jazz.
Looking under every stone to find a justification to include a character in the game for political reasons is pure wokeness.

The game doesn´t have much woke. Only that, the antisemite attacks and the having gay sex with boys part. But it does definitely have content included for political reasons (DEI), which means wokeness.

Gtfo, since when was "antisemites" a term in the 1400s

Shits too funny

 

[thief183]

After 40 hours I can confirm that I feed almost 10 girls and no man!

 

[LectureMaster]

Can't say I've been seeing much of this drama, but I'm not interested in KCD2 nor have I been actively seeking it out.

The "both sides" complaint is pretty lame though. Act Man was doing it on Twitter the other day, saying he hates both sides, then he got called out because he only ever complains about the anti-woke. People see through that shit.

The pushback against wokeness in video games is here to stay. People didn't wake up one morning and decide to hate it because of "grifters", they are genuinely tired of it.

I've seen the pattern.

 

[Buggy Loop]

I've seen the pattern.

Where do you even get a whiff that it’s a push back against any criticism. Even the video does not go there.

 

[Spiral1407]

Woke this...woke that...

All this grifter nonsense is just background noise to me at this point. They'd probably boycott GTA San Andreas if it came out today.

 

[Rocinante618]

It's like real life, the extremes make the most noise but probably are like <1% of the whole world. Just ignore and enjoy the game

 

[Guilty_AI]

Where do you even get a whiff that it’s a push back against any criticism. Even the video does not go there.

Then how is the "correct" way to point out any of the issues with the game, even if they're smaller and dont affect the quality of the game as a whole?

 

[Herbspiceguy]

I think implementing gay sex between Hans and Henry is dumb and doesn't make sense at all. I don't care if that makes certain ppl perceive me as a retard grifter or whatever.

 

[Hypereides]

I honestly think the extremities that are coming from both sides need to be pushed back to the fringes. They're both in dire need of some good ridicule.

Right now, the one that's catching the most flak is the one that's been pushing political correctness for better part of a decade. The opposing counterpart needs to get humbled as well. The status quo should never be black and white. Especially, in arts and entertainment. It robs people of nuance.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Then how is the "correct" way to point out any of the issues with the game, even if they're smaller and dont affect the quality of the game as a whole?

No « go woke go broke ». « Non buy-nary » and other low effort posts

There’s no discussions to be had with these peoples, don’t you agree?

 

[LectureMaster]

Where do you even get a whiff that it’s a push back against any criticism. Even the video does not go there.

Not saying you specifically, I think you are good. But of course this thread is a feast for our usual woke apologizers on the forum.

 

[Guilty_AI]

No « go woke go broke ». « Non buy-nary » and other low effort posts

And where are those? Are posts that never elaborate what they dont like as frequent as you claim? Cause i've more people like you complaining about those than those themselves. And i've got to say, that is annoying.

 

[Gamer79]

Here is a simple idea:

keep politics out of videogames!

 

[March Climber]

Buggy Loop The harsh truth is that it's easier for most people on either side to just shove you to the other side than bother with honest critiques that point out flaws and issues.

No one wants to bother with the cleanup on the messier parts of either side because then that could potentially mean infighting, and infighting is seen as something that weakens a side. When the lines move further away from each other, most people simply move with their line. It's just easier

 

[Kacho]

Upper Echelon made a complete ass of himself during that video. He clearly doesn't completely understand the issue at hand and did very little, if any, research on the topic. People are rightly criticizing his poorly thought out, half assed opinion on the topic. He was better off not releasing the video in the first place.

Within the first 30 seconds of the video he referred to those complaining about the controversy as "idiots". So much for arguing in good faith.

He's getting destroyed like Mortimer did when he reviewed Dragon Age Veilguard. Whoops lol

 

[Mozzarella]

I dont care about this drama regarding KCD2, i liked KCD1 so i will check out KCD2 soon, but i find what Daniel Vavra is doing to be annoying, i like Vavra style of being rude and honest and transparent with no bullshit gossip, he tells it straight and i respect that, but he has been whining a lot lately and its not a good look, just take a break, shut up and count your revenue, let the game speak for itself.

 

[KyoZz]

As much as I love KCD2, the Hans romance is bullshit and same goes for that Muslim telling how well they treat woman. We all know why it's here.

It doesn't prevent me from enjoying the game, but I don't have to be fine with it.

 

[Labadal]

The studio/studio lead sold out. They completely changed their tone after the first game, but only AFTER leaks happened for the second one. Vavra's way of responding on social media was just icing on the cake. I don't see voting with your wallet as something that is wrong.

Make main dude gay, black people, cumans, jews. The way they are handled in the game has nothing to do with historical accuracy.

If you like it, good for you. I hope that you enjoy it. As a shareholder of the Embracer stock, I won't shed tears if the game does well. On a personal level, I have no interest in playing the game.

Neither you, nor some dumbfuck YouTuber get to decide what is stupid or not.

 

[xenosys]

As always, once there's $$$ and currency to be made off of grifting, regardless of which side you're on, people always try and one-up themselves by getting more and more extreme until the entire eco-sphere around the gaming culture war pops.

The anti-woke are becoming just as annoying as the woke crowd now.

 

[Aguero9320]

Boycotts Fucking losers on both sides - if you’re getting that worked up about any of it, it’s time for a long, hard look at where your life took a wrong turn.

Enjoy the games, or don’t.

 

[JoduanER2]

As I've said countless times on this forum.

Upper Echelon said it better than I could ever. Both sides are an embarrassment to gamers. The Hogwarts Legacy cancel attempt or the KCD 2 boycott. Both utterly dumb.

Do watch the video 100% to see the thread of grifting




Grifters are farming for extreme reactions. The fact that KCD2 of all games even gets boycott talk says it all how at the bottom of the barrel youtube comment sections has become (and leaking to hardcore forums like here sadly)

"get woke, go broke"
"100% non-buy-nary"

Much like flat earthers, you find a community and you get your dopamine hits from peoples you suddenly find are like you and talk to you. Oh a little mean one-liner and you get hundreds of likes. You truely understand the dynamics of society with just a few one-liners like go woke go broke and a huge echo chamber in the youtube grifter's comment section all tapping themselves on the back and upvoting any flock mentality comment that doesn't deviate from the channel. You found your little hole in society right? Using logic and trying to argue in good faith, that's too much fucking typing and no easy upvotes. Why would brain go for hard things? Easy dopamine hits.

Its quite sad. What even is this generation of gamers? So much black and white. Drama farming. Its tiring.

I hate wokeness more than anything else but how is this game woke?

 

[Gonzito]

The game is incredible and in my humble opinion, anyone that skip it because of this drama is just being dumb

 

[bitbydeath]

This is anti-woke, and there’s nothing wrong with it.

That fucking ugly lesbian haircut doesn’t help them in either ones.

They butchered the real model so bad



Look how fucking cute she is. They made the model more ugly for wokeness or something

Fuck devs putting woke shit in games.

 

[Guardian Monkey]

Woke or Anti-woke popularity may wax or wane for this industry and it's followers as time goes on.. but mentally challenged is forever.

 

[LRKD]

Appeal to triviality, get a real argument. Do you want more concords? Cause this is how you get more concords, by saying any feed back is 'cringe' or 'dumb', fuck you dude, let peoples voices actually be heard.

 

[Killer8]

It's comical the lengths people will go to to defend something they like as "one of the good ones" despite all evidence to the contrary.

The original Kingdom Come marketed itself as a painstakingly researched historical piece. So much so that it was later used as a basis for Czech university courses. Vavra took a hard line approach in 2018 by insisting that "There were no black people in medieval Bohemia. Period", therefore there were none featured in the game, and that ended up being the big point of contention with woke people in 2018. Fast forward to 2025 and suddenly Vavra did manage to find the only person of color in all the land! Bit strange to have such a pivot on a detail explicitly stated as being 100% factual back then, don't you think?

What's also interesting, from a perspective of "woke vs anti-woke", is comparing the reception of Musa in KC2 to Yasuke in Assassin's Creed Shadows.

Yasuke seems to be an extremely contentious figure, even on this forum, with many insisting his presence in the game is woke. He was based on a historical figure however, so in fact he even has more of a footing in reality than Musa does, ie. a black man was literally in Japan in servitude of Nobunaga in the 1500s, in some capacity or another. The developers at Ubisoft nowadays admit that they made some embellishments to him, re: was he a samurai, for the sake of the story to work. But at least they are being upfront about that now (even if their own folly was not doing that from day one).

Musa on the other hand is a completely fictional amalgamation of various historical characters, such as Ibn Battuta (who never set foot in Bohemia). He is a black character who shouldn't even be there according to Vavra circa 2018, and is fictitious enough to have given Vavra artistic license to create whatever the hell kind of character he wanted. Not only did Vavra reverse course about Musa's plausibility, he's also using the character to insert one of the most progressive storytelling stereotypes there is: the smug, enlightened foreigner who knows more than Europeans do, because of course Europeans are all uneducated, treat their women like shit and rob people on highways. Woke storytelling at its finest.

I would bet that Assassin's Creed Shadows, the "woke" game out of the two according to this forum, will not even be so heavy handed in its approach to a foreigner interacting with his Japanese hosts.

The question arises: why the heel turn on what was stated to be historical fact by Vavra 2018? For a forum which also likes a little bit of DEI sleuthing when it comes to Sweet Baby Inc etc, suddenly it's so annoying to point out that the game is published by Deep Silver, whose parent company Embracer Group is balls deep in ESG and accepted $1 billion from a Saudi investment fund. I'd posit that Vavra accepted whatever terms were thrown at him ("put a Muslim black guy in there") to get his baby funded and across the finish line. Understandable really, but he's now facing one of two realities:

1) everything he fervently said in 2018 was not true and he admits the woke crowd were correct all along, and as one of the converted that's the reason why Musa is now in the game (after all, he says it was "exactly what I wanted it to be")
2) if Vavra stands by what he said in 2018, he is now wilfully pushing an ahistorical interpretation of medievil Bohemia going against his 'top historian' sources - possibly to appease his publisher and/or certain corners of the internet

Either way, he's been caught out on his contradiction and is either dishonest, a pussy or just painfully stupid.

Based on how easily he walked into this, perhaps the latter:

In any case, it's clear that KC2 is no longer the maximally historically accurate game that KC1 marketed itself as, and people have every right to decide not to part with their money for that reason.

 

[thefool]

Nah mate, there aren't two sides. There's a bunch of lunatic that ran the asylum for too many years and a group of people who just want to go back to the baseline.

Ain't nobody buying this two side bullshit.

 

[H From Steps]

Simple I advocate for us to bring back shaming and standards seems like both sides has forgotten this

 

[Griffon]

"Two side" rethoric just means whoever says it is a woketard who's mad people aren't taking their shit anymore.

 

[H From Steps]

Nah mate, there aren't two sides. There's a bunch of lunatic that ran the asylum for too many years and a group of people who just want to go back to the baseline.

Ain't nobody buying this two side bullshit.

People who fight fire with fire usually end up with ashes. all of you are lost

 

[FalsettoVibe]

Nah mate, there aren't two sides. There's a bunch of lunatic that ran the asylum for too many years and a group of people who just want to go back to the baseline.

Ain't nobody buying this two side bullshit.

You literally reference two sides in your statement, but say there isn't. Make it make sense.

And none of the, "but were the good guys stuff". Because the other side believes the same crap.

 

[bitbydeath]

People who fight fire with fire usually end up with ashes. all of you are lost

They’re not fighting fire with fire, it’s about getting back to the middle ground.

People speak of anti-woke as being an extreme, it isn’t. It’s about undoing the extremist behaviour, not pushing for an alternative extreme.

 

[thefool]

You literally reference two sides in your statement, but say there isn't. Make it make sense.

And none of the, "but were the good guys stuff". Because the other side believes the same crap.

Nah.

Read the thread, he's making an equivalence about two extremes, which don't exist.

 

[H From Steps]

They’re not fighting fire with fire, it’s about getting back to the middle ground.

People speak of anti-woke as being an extreme, it isn’t. It’s about undoing the extremist behaviour, not pushing for an alternative extreme.

All I see is you guys doing the same extreme they’re doing. Both of you can’t comprehend they can be a middle ground both your groups are selfish and are going to great heights to want what’s theirs your the same coin heads and tails.

 

[bitbydeath]

All I see is you guys doing the same extreme they’re doing. Both of you can’t comprehend they can be a middle ground both your groups are selfish and are going to great heights to want what’s theirs your the same coin heads and tails.

What’s the other extreme exactly?
What new behaviour is being pushed?
You’ll find it’s simply a fight for normalism, nothing more.

 

[Bernardougf]

And where are those? Are posts that never elaborate what they dont like as frequent as you claim? Cause i've more people like you complaining about those than those themselves. And i've got to say, that is annoying.

Yeah.. anti-wokes are bad .. but have you seen the anti-antiwokes ? They are just as horrible or worse

 

[thefool]

All I see is you guys doing the same extreme they’re doing. Both of you can’t comprehend they can be a middle ground both your groups are selfish and are going to great heights to want what’s theirs your the same coin heads and tails.

That's baloney and a way to normalize the lunatics. The other side bans games discussion, bans talking about these issues, bans users who even play these games. They want to persecute people because of their political affiliations, and in some cases, they wish harm and death on them.

Pretty much everyone else is simply stating they are not interested in games that push radical ideologies, that's it. It's a consumer choice, one that is becoming the norm when companies are misaligned with their consumers. There is no fire whatsoever involved, it's really the most mundane choice we have to protest, to simply say no.

 

[H From Steps]

What’s the other extreme exactly?
What new behaviour is being pushed?
You’ll find it’s simply a fight for normalism, nothing more.

I'm not saying there’s new behavior being pushed, but the anti-woke crowd is growing, and as a growing fan base. You have a hive mind, and when most of this so-called group just wants to eradicate the woke people, we have a problem. Humans are social creatures. Woke people are not going anywhere, and anti-woke people aren’t going anywhere. Instead of you guys coming together and actually trying to meet in the middle, all I see is both sides whining like a bunch of babies. Both groups are destructive, and you guys can’t even see it.

 

[bitbydeath]

I'm not saying there’s new behavior being pushed, but the anti-woke crowd is growing, and as a growing fan base. You have a hive mind, and when most of this so-called group just wants to eradicate the woke people, we have a problem. Humans are social creatures. Woke people are not going anywhere, and anti-woke people aren’t going anywhere. Instead of you guys coming together and actually trying to meet in the middle, all I see is both sides whining like a bunch of babies. Both groups are destructive, and you guys can’t even see it.

Middle ground is normalism.
Sims, BG3.

They could be considered middle ground and well supported by many.

You’re acting as if anti-woke is pushing for all women to be naked in games.

 

[Bernardougf]

I'm not saying there’s new behavior being pushed, but the anti-woke crowd is growing, and as a growing fan base. You have a hive mind, and when most of this so-called group just wants to eradicate the woke people, we have a problem. Humans are social creatures. Woke people are not going anywhere, and anti-woke people aren’t going anywhere. Instead of you guys coming together and actually trying to meet in the middle, all I see is both sides whining like a bunch of babies. Both groups are destructive, and you guys can’t even see it.

I find this cute.. the other side has been calling everyone nazis, racists, phobes, and canceling people for the smallest disagreements they can find .. and now that they are loosing everyone should calm down and be friends and find a middle ground ... now middle ground suddenly is a great idea.

And yes woke ideology should disappear .. wich dosent mean gays, trans, they/them should also.. nop.. they can continue living happily ever after as always... its just the pushing of woke ideology that needs gone. People were gay and happy long before woke culture pushing existed.

 

[H From Steps]

Middle ground is normalism.
Sims, BG3.

They could be considered middle ground and well supported by many.

You’re acting as if anti-woke is pushing for all women to be naked in games.

Clearly they don’t see it as middle ground I’m not a woke person so idk what their middle ground is maybe you should talk to them instead of defining what YOUR middle ground is just saying.

 

[H From Steps]

I find this cute.. the other side has been calling everyone nazis, racists, phobes, and canceling people for the smallest disagreements they can find .. and now that they are loosing everyone should calm down and be friends and find a middle ground ... now middle ground suddenly is a great idea.

Idk who’s winning or losing as I don’t live in place who goes by woke and anti woke maybe people have been stuck on the internet for to long. But from what I can see from my time online woke people call anti woke people names and vice versa let’s not sit here and claim one side is threatening and calling names and slurs to the other one when they both do it.