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[TruHero]

It seems like this thread is made nearly every week. And Hillary supporters wonder why her unfavorables are high.

Just like it was only a small, very small, minority of Hillary supporters in 08 who claimed they wouldn't vote for Obama, The same holds true for Sanders supporters today. One would hope Hillary supporters would understand this fact.

How the fuck this kinda bullshit thread does not get immediately locked is beyond me.

Creating this thread to vent and slander every non-Hillary supporter is a fucking joke. And to call those individuals children is the most ironic part. I get it- you guys have to make the same damn thread every day because it's super easy to spin your strawman argument and paint Bernie supporters with one broad stroke while simultaneously you get to jerk off about your leading nominee. But it's getting damn tiring and Gaf is a more rational audience than your bullshit misrepresentation will ever claim them to be. I supported Bernie, it's obvious he's not going to get the nomination- Hillary does not represent my interests, so she will not get my vote. But Trump certainly will not either.

But let me say this, in the same vein of how you take your small sample from shit places like facebook or twitter, formulate your rage, and bring that shitty argument here, I will point out that from my sampling, people have soured on Hillary because of her shitty supporters such as yourself who seem to both gloat and chastise Bernie followers while covering it all in a veil of 'concern'.

I have to say, I hear more tantrums about this 'Bernie to Trump' narrative (this thread) than I actually ever have about actual Bernie supporters throwing a fit and claiming they're moving to the Trump camp.

I have to agree with this

 

[quickwhips]

The two types I know:

1. Old misogynists

2. Young Bernie-ites who seriously don't understand what 8 years of Bush did to this country.

I know what Bill Clinton did to this country.
http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1877351_1877350_1877322,00.html

 

[kitchenmotors]

Crying about voting shaming and then saying you're going to vote for Trump is driving me insane.

I'll be sure to thank you guys when Trump is in office and I have the cards stack against me because I'm a minority and gay. I can't wait for all the work my communities have made during the Obama administration to be reversed.

 

[King Tubby]

If you are a liberal who won't vote Hillary in the fall you are a white male more than likely. And clearly do not give one single shit about minorities or the LGBT community because you would happily let them get thrown under the bus because you rather act like a child throwing a tantrum for not getting their way.

Fucking yuuuuup.

The epitome of white male privilege here. Sure is nice to not have to worry about who wins in the end.

Oh, fuck off. The most fervent Sanders supporter I know is a nonwhite transwoman who is planning to leave the country rather than vote for Clinton. Stop speaking for other people from your fucking bubble.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Real progressives never say "I'm progressive but ...".

It's like how real non-racists never say "I'm not racist but ...".

 

[Shao Kahn on the Lawn]

i'm slowly learning to not give a fuck about the fringe left threatening to not vote or vote trump if sanders doesn't get the nomination. looking at the primary numbers, much of his base seems to have been too busy doing whatever else to actually vote. it's a small number who would actually vote against a dem for potus

attention is all these people want. you can see the same 5-6 people on gaf going over it again and again, ignoring some posters who counter them in a sensible way and focusing on an emotional response to their savior not getting the nomination.

We're being sensible now, are we? We're past the point of accusing every Sanders supporter of being narcissistic, racist misogynists who never cared for minorities and were only ever in this at all to support a fad?

Crying about voting shaming and then saying you're going to vote for Trump is driving me insane.

I'll be sure to thank you guys when Trump is in office and I have the cards stack against me because I'm a minority and gay. I can't wait for all the work my communities have made during the Obama administration to be reversed.

This narrative surfaces every day. Who here has claimed to support Sanders that will be moving to Trump? I want specific examples because I've seen that straw man a dozen times yet no actual instances of it.

 

[MGrant]

Some good discussion here, and not much to add in terms of the debate over voting, but just remember that a president is only as effective as the Senate and House will allow. People thought there was going to be a wave of progressive reforms when Obama was elected, and we all saw how that worked out.

If Bernie gets elected but has a GOP majority to contend with, none of his proposed reforms will get passed. Or they'll be gutted beyond recognition.

That's going to happen to any Dem who gets office from now until this generation of conservative voters dies off. The Republicans learned there is no penalty for refusing to legislate, aside from some stern talking-tos from people they don't have to listen to, so it will be de rigueur until roundabout 2030.

 

[FStubbs]

There is merit in punishing the Democratic Party. Republicans do it all the time. When they don't get their way, they put through an even MORE conservative candidate while Democrats compromise and put through a right of the center candidate...

People should be anger there is no liberal party in America.

Republicans can do that because the Democrats don't hate Republicans. Republicans are also dealing from a position of strength.

Also "darn those gays will be allowed to be gay 2 more years" is a lot lower risk factor than "hey it's open season on people who look like me and businesses can not hire me because of my ethnicity."

 

[Ihyll]

Most Bernie supporters will get in line behind Hillary come November.

We do need every one of them we can get

As for the ones that plan on voting for Trump....they can fuck right off and deserve all the shit they've been told in this thread

 

[not psycho]

Ranked choice voting: http://www.fairvote.org/rcv#how_rcv_works

That said, when it comes to actually voting, you have to work with the system that exists, not the one that you wants. WTA voting always ends up making voting against someone more important than voting for a third party candidate who fits your views exactly.

Ranked choice is the one I mentioned.

It has several problems, like possibly making a candidate lose by ranking them first instead of strategically ranking someone else first (strategically ranking an opponent first so you can beat them later can be better than ranking your own favorite first).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotonicity_criterion

It also does not guarantee that the candidate who would beat everyone else 1 on 1 will end up winning:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condorcet_criterion

35: A>B>C
34: C>B>A
31: B>C>A

A has the most 1st place votes. B would beat either opponent 1 on 1. C wins the runoff going by ranks.

A third issue is that when you rank A>B>C that doesn't tell you anything about the distance between them. What if you rank A 100 points, B 1 point, and C 0 points (Bernie, Trump, Cruz)? Having a 2 person race removes the distance issue.


Even with these issues ranked voting may be the best. But the current method isn't as hopeless as people think, it's just that people don't vote. The primary system does not force a moderate candidate to win. Just look at Trump. Look at all the support Bernie has gotten.

 

[Ultima_5]

I feel like anyone who acts like this had a good chance of not caring about voting come Election Day regardless

 

[GamerJM]

Bernie supporters who vote for Trump are morons, or they never really cared about Bernie's policies in the first place and are just stupidly anti-establishment for whatever reason.

That being said, on the "not voting," I agree that it's silly in most cases, but I'm probably going to vote for Jill Stein just because I live in California where the Democrat is basically guaranteed to get the nomination. I legitimately feel like an election vote doesn't matter here.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

We're being sensible now, are we? We're past the point of accusing every Sanders supporter of being narcissistic, racist misogynists who never cared for minorities and were only ever in this at all to support a fad?

Is that honestly what was happening

 

[Joni]

This notion that we need to nominate Hillary in order to beat Trump (or Cruz) is the real bullshit.

It is mostly same demographic that is voting on Sanders, because all the people that aren't voting for Romney aren't voting for Sanders either, they are voting for Clinton.

 

[Shao Kahn on the Lawn]

Is that honestly what was happening

How many times was that massive shitpost rant of Angelus' quoted in celebration?

 

[King Tubby]

Is that honestly what was happening

According to at least one other poster in this thread, people who don't like Clinton either hate women or are young and ignorant.

 

[Cheebo]

According to at least one other poster in this thread, people who don't like Clinton either hate women or are young and ignorant.

Well if you don't vote Democrat in the fall you are helping candidates who want to shut down Planned Parenthood. So yeah even if you think you don't hate women your actions speak louder than words. So those people are spitting in the face of women with their third party/lack of vote choice. No question.

 

[Ultima_5]

According to at least one other poster in this thread, people who don't like Clinton either hate women or are young and ignorant.

I struggle to see how voting for any republican candidate isn't a vote against women

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

How many times was that massive shitpost rant of Angelus' quoted in celebration?

If you took that to be directed at all Sandera supporters and not those who said they'd flip or not vote, I guess we're done.

 

[Big Baybee]

How many times was that massive shitpost rant of Angelus' quoted in celebration?

Did you see who he was very specifically talking about in that post or nah?

 

[Ihyll]

According to at least one other poster in this thread, people who don't like Clinton either hate women or are young and ignorant.

Well if you aren't going to vote Democrat in the fall you sure as hell ain't helping to ensure that planned parenthood stays open..

Because let's face it, you probably didn't give a fuck about these issues in the first place

 

[BrutishMrFish]

How many times was that massive shitpost rant of Angelus' quoted in celebration?

At no point was that post about all or even most Bernie supporters. It was primarily about the subset of Bernie supporters who are complaining about how their interests aren't represented, while planning on not voting or voting for Trump. Those are the only people who should be getting offended by that post.

 

[King Tubby]

Well if you don't vote Democrat in the fall you are helping candidates who want to shut down Planned Parenthood. So yeah even if you think you don't hate women your actions speak louder than words. So those people are spitting in the face of women with their third party/lack of vote choice. No question.

I struggle to see how voting for any republican candidate isn't a vote against women

I didn't say anything about voting for a Republican. I said not liking Hillary. There are plenty of liberals (and not just straight white males, for fuck's sake) who do not like Hillary but will probably vote for her anyway to avoid the worst possible result.

There's also those who won't vote because of disgust or apathy, or those who not only won't vote, but will also leave the country.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

How many times was that massive shitpost rant of Angelus' quoted in celebration?

Now this just reads like you're salty that nobody quotes you in 'celebration'.

 

[kitchenmotors]

This narrative surfaces every day. Who here has claimed to support Sanders that will be moving to Trump? I want specific examples because I've seen that straw man a dozen times yet no actual instances of it.

I saw at least one person in this thread say this very thing. I'll have to go back and find it, but this isn't just some narrative people are making up.

How many times was that massive shitpost rant of Angelus' quoted in celebration?

Except it wasn't a shitpost, it's exactly how some of us minorities feel. Best post of this entire thread.

1. The lot of you are crying about how you can't vote for a politician who doesn't truly represent you. Boo fucking hoo, minorities, LGBT, and women have had to deal with that for decades. There is a political party that is actively trying to fuck their lives up in so many ways. They never get a politician who that truly represents them but you don't see them saying "Fuck the system lololol, I'll vote republican for the lulz!" They still vote for the closest politican they can find.

You don't worry about that because you're a white male, and because of such the policies the right will enact will affect you much less than the non white groups of America. It's white privilege to be able to vote for a repressive party because you didn't get your way. The rest of us don't have such a luxury. We have to vote for whoever is trying to fuck us over the least. Many upon many Americans stand to loss much with Trump/Cruz in office. They stand to lose insurance via ACA, which probably doesn't affect you because you have a decent paying job that provides adequate insurance. LGBT stand to lose the right to get married, again this doesn't bother/concern you because you're a straight white male, you've been able to get married since this country's inception.

2. With number one stated, it's clear that none of you actually ever gave a fuck about Bernie's platform and what he stands for because if you did then you'd have long realized how selfish and arrogant to vote against what he stands for. Hillary is corporate yes but even Bernie himself has acknowledged on more than one occasion that they both have the same goals in mind in regards to making America a place more tolerable for those who didn't hit the genetic lottery to be born middle class, white, and male. Bernie Sanders himself will vote this election and I can promise you he'll vote for Hillary.

Bernie's policies and platform were never the reason you people were voting for him. You were voting for him because most of you are to put it bluntly...fucking hipsters and Bernie Sanders/Feel the Bernie was the newest fad that you jumped on to show all your twitter/Facebook friends that you're "socially woke" and to pretend that you give a damn about the country or the people. It was an shallow act, and now that Bernie has lost you've dropped the fad and are on to the next one. You people heard the buzzword "anti-establishment" and jumped on the hype train, went to your social networks and blogs and posted links and articles about the sad state of America telling your friends to "wake up" like you were this social justice warrior but the entire thing was a damn act. You never gave a damn about the state of America or how it's people are being treated, and I mean ha why should you? It would barely affect you in the end. You're not poor, you're not LGBT, you're not a minority. At most you'll lose a dollar or two because of tax but hey life is still good.

Then when Trump/Cruz is elected and the put some ridiculously conservative judges on the SCOTUS and rollback all the progress America made, you'll sit in your ivory tower of white privilege and go "If only you people voted for Bernie! we could have avoided this!" Not once realizing that you directly contributed to the shit state of affairs when you decided to pout that your politician didn't get elected.

It's like you people don't understand a thing about politics, politics is all about compromising, even voters have to compromise. I personally would like the next 5 Presidents to be socially progressive minorities but I can't get that, but I am presented a politician who while I don't agree with all of her stances on things, she's the closest thing I've got to my ideal politician, and she's also the one who will fuck over us non white males the least and at the very least protect some of the laws that keep us safe and rollback others that hurt us. And that's the crux, you weren't "added" as a clause to be considered equal or worth protecting. We were and we'd like to see the clauses stay as they are and not eroded or removed completely because a segment of America deems us to be lessers.

But hey, take your ball and pout. That's the privilege granted to you. It must be nice.

 

[Cheebo]

I didn't say anything about voting for a Republican. I said not liking Hillary. There are plenty of liberals (and not just straight white males, for fuck's sake) who do not like Hillary but will probably vote for her anyway to avoid the worst possible result.

There's also those who won't vote because of disgust or apathy, or those who not only won't vote, but will also leave the country.

Not voting is just as bad as voting Republican. Down ticket races are just as important. Most people are idiots and only seem to focus on the a presidential race.


No Bernie supporter is going to leave because of Hillary. Don't be absurd. She is going to be 4-8 more years of the exact Obama policies we have now more or less. Did they leave because of Obama?

 

[Vincent Grayson]

Sanders candidacy has changed the dialogue for every future election. Your participation in that, including voting in your local primary if you could, was a part of that

But if he doesn't get the nomination, staying home to not vote doesn't further that. There's no additional statement being made in that abstinance

There is though. That statement is "None of these candidates have earned my vote".

 

[lednerg]

I don't buy it being entirely real, because I think the people who would honestly not vote or vote for Trump over voting for Hillary are a hilarious (and sad) minority. That said, I'd rather not take chances.

What's hilarious and sad is what PoliGAF has turned itself into, a perpetual circle-jerk over the non-committal, laissez-faire candidate. The strawmanning of those who are put off by her lack of substance is very telling. Not even they are all that inspired by her, so they have to focus on deranged phantoms to make their efforts seem important. Why do they even bother?

 

[dave is ok]

Not going to vote for a candidate I don't like because of fearmongering, sorry

 

[King Tubby]

No Bernie supporter is going to leave because of Hillary. Don't be absurd. She is going to be 4-8 more years of the exact Obama policies we have now more or less. Did they leave because of Obama?

I just stated above how I personally know one person who is doing exactly that. No, they didn't leave because of Obama, they supported Obama and were deeply disappointed with a lot of the things he did or failed to do.

 

[Ultima_5]

anyone who threatens to leave to Canada or whatever are full of it. So melodramatic

There is though. That statement is "None of these candidates have earned my vote".

Seems egotistical. No candidate is ever going to perfectly align with your politics beliefs unless you're the one running. People should vote for whoever somewhat aligns to their political beliefs and who isn't going to actively fuck over others.

 

[Shao Kahn on the Lawn]

I saw at least one person in this thread say this very thing. I'll have to go back and find it, but this isn't just some narrative people are making up.

One person. Out of almost 900 posts, you think that one person's post justifies a narrative adjustment that basically addresses it as if it was the status quo?

Except it wasn't a shitpost, it's exactly how some of us minorities feel. Best post of this entire thread.

It was absolutely a shitpost and regurgitation of the same hateful rhetoric that Clinton supporters have been spewing throughout the entire primary.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

There is though. That statement is "None of these candidates have earned my vote".

That's silly if someone actually thinks that's the message they're conveying by not voting. Double silly if someone truly thinks a candidate 'earned their vote' by simply making some promises.

It was absolutely a shitpost and regurgitation of the same hateful rhetoric that Clinton supporters have been spewing throughout the entire primary.

Explain how it was hateful.

 

[Cheebo]

I just stated above how I personally know one person who is doing exactly that. No, they didn't leave because of Obama, they supported Obama and were deeply disappointed with a lot of the things he did or failed to do.

People always threaten. No one ever acts on it. No one who is liberal is leaving the country because one liberal candidate beat a different liberal candidate with nearly identical policies and political stances.

It's not like a Bernie White House would be any different. We will almost certainly still have a Republican congress. None of Bernies more radical ideas had any chance. We'd get the same watered down left of center compromise policies obviously.

 

[Redd]

You should vote however you want even if it's for selfish reasons. Don't let others try to shame you to get their way. Yes it would've been nice for Bernie to get the nomination and he would've definitely gotten my vote in the GE.

Oh well, I'll vote for Hillary in the GE now because I live in a purple state but not because others want me too but because out of the remaining picks she's the best option for America. Imo of course.

 

[Big Baybee]

Explain how it was hateful.

Either he is going to vote Trump, or not going to vote at all. No idea how he would consider it hateful otherwise.

 

[mclem]

That's not the case. It's more of if Clinton gets it, I believe my now former party made a mistake, and if I don't vote I don't care, but I DO care, so I might have to fix that mistake myself come Election Day.

What makes you equate "Voting for Trump" to "Fixing that mistake"?

There are ways to try to push the Democrats further left. Voting for Trump is... not the most logical one.

 

[WeAreStarStuff]

Get off your high house OP. I feel the Bern but can't stand Hillary. I'm just going to vote Green; which I'm registered as anyways.

 

[Diablos]

So now we've gotten to the point that the politics of your candidate for president don't matter as long as they're left of some mythical breaking point that the Republicans define because *throws hands up* what can ya do? You undermined your whole post with that. Of course it's relevant.

No I didn't. That is the dumbest thing I've read all week. Their politics matter but not as much as some would make that out to be. I'm not throwing my hands up and saying there's nothing we can do, I'm saying that for both candidates they would have a very hard time enacting their policies as they define them when campaigning. Again, 2016 is not going to be a wave election for progressive values whether you like it or not and Bernie's progressive platform does not add up not only in regards to how it could be paid for but how it would actually pass in today's political climate which is bitterly divided and cutthroat. The complete inability of many Sanders voters to see what's right in front of them is baffling to me.

Also, this breaking point you speak of isn't mythical, it's something called reality. Sorry for being a realist and wanting to do the best I possibly can to prevent the GOP from fucking everything up.

I'll tell you right now, if enough people would either a. write in Bernie b. stay home or c. vote Trump because Hillary is the nominee, and the Republicans win, someday they will realize they made a huge mistake.

 

[Randam]

There will only be 2 candidates?
Weird system.

Here you could vote for the biggest outsider and still make a difference

 

[King Tubby]

People always threaten. No one ever acts on it. No one who is liberal is leaving the country because one liberal candidate beat a different liberal candidate with nearly identical policies and political stances.

Clinton and Sanders are not nearly identical, not on income inequality, nor foreign policy. Believe it or not, the two actually have ideological differences!

But no, you're right, I guess donating hundreds of dollars to the Sanders campaign, canvassing for him in multiple states during primary season, and also going through the immigration process to enter a true democratic socialist country is all a show. You sure know a lot about these people you don't know anything about!

No I didn't. That is the dumbest thing I've read all week. Their politics matter but not as much as some would make that out to be. I'm not throwing my hands up and saying there's nothing we can do, I'm saying that for both candidates they would have a very hard time enacting their policies as they define them when campaigning. Again, 2016 is not going to be a wave election for progressive values whether you like it or not.

Also, this breaking point you speak of isn't mythical, it's something called reality. Sorry for being a realist and wanting to do the best I possibly can to prevent the GOP from fucking everything up.

At what point does it stop being realism and become self-perpetuating defeatism? What's more, yes it undermines your point. You're basically preaching to the Clinton choir saying it doesn't really matter how progressive they are. Of course it does. If your stance is basically that the GOP congress is going to block anything anyway, you might as well be telling me to vote for a block of wood. Even if they do, the President has powers and influence besides. Their ideology, their motivations, their passions absolutely fucking matter.

I'm more than likely going to be voting for Hillary in the coming election, but I will be doing so to try to avoid a calamity at best. There are valid reasons not to like Hillary and I don't like myself or people I know being talked down to or shamed for feeling like we do (and most of the people I know who fit this mold are not *shock and horror* white people).

 

[Vincent Grayson]

anyone who threatens to leave to Canada or whatever are full of it. So melodramatic



Seems egotistical. No candidate is ever going to perfectly align with your politics beliefs unless you're the one running. People should vote for whoever somewhat aligns to their political beliefs and who isn't going to actively fuck over others.

And why should one's personal vote, the only actual political power most of us have, be anything but a personal (though I wouldn't use the word egotistical) choice?

I just don't see a compelling argument for why I should vote for someone I have no interest in seeing as president.

Of course, I also live in a deep blue state, so Hillary will take it here regardless.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I think our off-site fan clubs have picked up some new members today lol

In the February primary thread we had a dude attribute Sanders poor numbers then to diminished black intelligence from slave breeding, people continuously lamenting blacks citing against our own interests (because who knows black peoples' interests better than non-black people), and people talking about the "black vote" like it was a newly discovered country. Now, if you weren't following or don't care about these things I could see how a post like Angelus' could make you upset. Think of how black Sanders supporters feel when their would-be compatriots disparage their intelligence or say they'll flip or stay home. And that's just here, forget about r/sandersforpresident.

I'll admit that some Hillary supporting posters are way too deep into her and do take delight in the number gap, but a lot of people, both Sanders and Clinton supporters alike, are just looking at the numbers and moving on to the next logical step.

 

[Guy LeDouche]

That's going to happen to any Dem who gets office from now until this generation of conservative voters dies off. The Republicans learned there is no penalty for refusing to legislate, aside from some stern talking-tos from people they don't have to listen to, so it will be de rigueur until roundabout 2030.

fallacy. In 2016, millennials will be the largest generation of elligible voters and by 2020, they will be 40% of the electorate

http://redalertpolitics.com/2016/03/16/debunking-myth-millennials-vote-actually/
http://mic.com/articles/35479/millennials-will-be-40-percent-of-the-electorate-by-2020#.bGC8khF1K

The census happens in 2020. Representation in the House is affected by the census. If progressives GOTV in the numbers they should, gerrymandered districts could be gone and old white conservative voters (who do nothing but GOTV) will stop dictating representation, which leads to legislation, judicial appointments, and so on.

 

[Loudninja]

Man, some of the posts ITT really make me want to see Trump win. It would be a sight to behold on left leaning sites like GAF and r/politics, and I say that as someone firmly in the centre.

Do you think this is a game or something?

 

[Vincent Grayson]

Do you think this is a game or something?

This is just the kind of stupid shit people say online. I can't think any rational person honestly thinks this way.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Get off your high house OP.

 

[WhateverItTakes]

How is this thread even so long? Bottom line, Bernie guys should know that they've done well so far, better than I ever thought at least. They should take the L on the election, even if they bloody hate Clinton, because that's the best chance they have of getting Bernie 2.0 into the white house.

You guys hate the establishment I get it. But you have to play its game a little longer if you want the results you want. Hell even if Bernie got in I imagine the change you're dreaming about wouldn't be as grand in reality.

 

[BrutishMrFish]

One person. Out of almost 900 posts, you think that one person's post justifies a narrative adjustment that basically addresses it as if it was the status quo?

It was absolutely a shitpost and regurgitation of the same hateful rhetoric that Clinton supporters have been spewing throughout the entire primary.

The only people who should be getting offended by that post are the subset of Bernie supporters that it describes.

If Hillary supporters have been throwing the same rhetoric at Bernie supporters in general, then that would imply that the post is similarly directed at most Bernie supporters. But then you say that one post in which someone said they'll be voting for Trump isn't enough to warrant that, in which case Angelus' post was not directed at most Bernie supporters, but at the people like said Trump supporter.

So which is it? You can't have it both ways. (Hint: it's the second one)

 

[alr1ght]

Bernie's campaign is not being rational (he has no chance to win), so it's not surprising his followers (many of whom have never participated in a primary season before) are not being rational. I'd like to think they will be like 2008 Hillary supporters and not Ron Paul supporters. I just don't know if they're fighting for policy or personality.