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[not psycho]

fallacy. In 2016, millennials will be the largest generation of elligible voters and by 2020, they will be 40% of the electorate

http://redalertpolitics.com/2016/03/16/debunking-myth-millennials-vote-actually/
http://mic.com/articles/35479/millennials-will-be-40-percent-of-the-electorate-by-2020#.bGC8khF1K

The census happens in 2020. Representation in the House is affected by the census. If progressives GOTV in the numbers they should, gerrymandered districts could be gone and old white conservative voters (who do nothing but GOTV) will stop dictating representation, which leads to legislation, judicial appointments, and so on.

Heh. This is really why I'm posting in this thread.

Voting for Obama was the first time I ever voted. I didn't vote in the 2010 midterm election.

I was dumb. It turns out votes do matter, and the government has been subtly, and not so subtly, trying to convince us they don't. Because they benefit from the status quo of people not voting. There are enough people out there to vote for good candidates, even if the party prefers someone else, but we have to vote en masse.

 

[King Tubby]

Bernie's campaign is not being rational (he has no chance to win)

Logic so circular that it's literally up its own ass.

 

[Horns]

Not caught up in this thread, but if you don't vote in November then you shouldn't bother posting your political opinions afterwards. There's nothing worse than hearing politcal opinions from people who don't vote.

 

[n00bsauce87]

Remember folks, all politics are local. You may not want to vote for Hilary, but you may want to change the local sheriff or DA.

In that sense, not voting at all because of the presidential choices is shelfish to your community. Or citizens of your state.

 

[collige]

fallacy. In 2016, millennials will be the largest generation of elligible voters and by 2020, they will be 40% of the electorate

http://redalertpolitics.com/2016/03/16/debunking-myth-millennials-vote-actually/
http://mic.com/articles/35479/millennials-will-be-40-percent-of-the-electorate-by-2020#.bGC8khF1K

The census happens in 2020. Representation in the House is affected by the census. If progressives GOTV in the numbers they should, gerrymandered districts could be gone and old white conservative voters (who do nothing but GOTV) will stop dictating representation, which leads to legislation, judicial appointments, and so on.

This implies that Democrats have nothing to do with gerrymandering.

 

[Diablos]

At what point does it stop being realism and become self-perpetuating defeatism? What's more, yes it undermines your point. You're basically preaching to the Clinton choir saying it doesn't really matter how progressive they are. Of course it does. If your stance is basically that the GOP congress is going to block anything anyway, you might as well be telling me to vote for a block of wood. Even if they do, the President has powers and influence besides. Their ideology, their motivations, their passions absolutely fucking matter.

I'm more than likely going to be voting for Hillary in the coming election, but I will be doing so to try to avoid a calamity at best. There are valid reasons not to like Hillary and I don't like myself or people I know being talked down to or shamed for feeling like we do (and most of the people I know who fit this mold are not *shock and horror* white people).

I don't know, why don't you draw it for me? Come down from your cloud, please.

It doesn't undermine my point; I'm not pandering to the Clinton choir. There are many times where I wish there would have been alternatives to Clinton other than Sanders to make the primary more competitive because she can turn a lot of people off and that is very concerning to me, particularly if a dark horse like Kasich would emerge victorious in a brokered GOP convetion.

Progressive politics matter, but not to the extent where it should trump (no pun intended) your pathway to the Presidency. You can be a progressive in the judges you appoint to the SCOTUS, the executive actions you set in motion, certain policies of Obama that you would opt to vigorously defend. You can set the tone of your Presidency with progressive values and stand up to the GOP at their most extreme. What you can't do is run on a platform of single-payer, free college, ending mass incarceration in four years and magically riding in on a carpet to the White House being able to do all of that in one term because turnout. That makes absolutely no sense. Bernie would not be able to make the House get a Democratic majority. Clinton may make it sound like a talking point but I've been saying it myself, regardless -- you cannot just talk about what you think is bad and beat your chest over how progressive you are and think that's going to translate to an effective Presidency. The current political climate forces you to tone it down and be a bit of a pragmatist. I don't like it, but I REALLY don't like the alternative which is a GOP Presidency.

Frankly, Hillary winning and keeping her cool while the GOP continues to tear itself apart is going to be a pretty big win in the long term for Democrats and progressive values. You're not going to get a massive paradigm shift overnight, and I wish more people would realize this. But what will happen I think is the GOP finally imploding after Hillary wins, forcing the most extreme voices of the party to splinter off while the establishment is awash in their own ineffectiveness, obstruction and embarrassment. It might take a while to see it come to light, but I think if she wins then election night 2016 would be the final nail in the coffin.

Honestly I'm hoping Hillary wins big this year and Democratic GOTV efforts stay strong in the midterms allowing us to finally start putting a dent into the House GOP firewall.

 

[JAV Actress]

lmfaooooooo

"If you don't vote for my my fav ur not progressive like meeee" - OP, 2016.


If people don't want to vote, then they don't have to man. It's their fucking choice, not yours and if that doesn't make them 'progressive' in your eyes i really don't think anyone cares man. Bernie has his supporters, as blinded as they may be, and if they are that dedicated to him to the point where it's bernie or nothing then so be it.

That being said I'm voting for Trump because I want to make America great again.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

lmfaooooooo

"If you don't vote for my my fav ur not progressive like meeee" - OP, 2016.

Closer to "if you can't even vote progressive then how can you call yourself progressive". I know, comprehension is difficult.

 

[Diablos]

lmfaooooooo

"If you don't vote for my my fav ur not progressive like meeee" - OP, 2016.


If people don't want to vote, then they don't have to man. It's their fucking choice, not yours and if that doesn't make them 'progressive' in your eyes i really don't think anyone cares man. Bernie has his supporters, as blinded as they may be, and if they are that dedicated to him to the point where it's bernie or nothing then so be it.

That being said I'm voting for Trump because I want to make America great again.

You completely missed the point.

 

[BrutishMrFish]

if they are that dedicated to him to the point where it's bernie or nothing then so be it.

That's the thing. It's not dedication. It's giving up.

Dedication would be listening to Bernie when he said that any Democratic nominee would be better than the Republicans. Dedication would be accepting that, while it sucks that Bernie won't likely get the nomination, any Republican winning the presidency would undo what he's tried to accomplish and turn socialism back into a scary buzzword (among many other things that would not only hurt many people, but run counter to the very principles that Bernie stands for). Dedication would be understanding that if a revolution isn't possible yet, then incremental improvements are preferable to going backwards in terms of progress.

In other words, if you can't meet your short term goals, laying the groundwork so that someone else can is the next best thing. No, it's not perfect, and it's not the best choice, but our political system doesn't give us that luxury.

 

[Guy LeDouche]

This implies that Democrats have nothing to do with gerrymandering.

at least they would be gerrymandered in their favor? then the sanders wing could challenge the center-left? there's a vision beyond just the next election. progressivism is the fruit of steady progress.

e: also, when computers draw congressional districts, the left wins (the truth has a well-known liberal bias)

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/03/opinion/sunday/the-great-gerrymander-of-2012.html?pagewanted=all

 

[Slayven]

The left have been showing their ass these cycle. Progressive checking each other and other bullshit.

c



Angelus Errare does to these threads what Slayven does to comic ones

Wait what?

 

[Clefargle]

People who vote for Hillary are not progressives, at best centrists.

Nonsense, get your tea-party level ideological purity out of here. Progressives have common core values but they don't vote one lockstep way. Progressives by definition are for policies that help move or change this country for the better, Clinton is to the left of Obama and a progressive certainly can vote for her. Even if you're holding your nose, it doesn't mean you compromised your "principles", because progressives don't have a monolithic set of them. We are for policies that evidence shows will work better than the current system. That's it.

 

[Diablos]

Nonsense, get your tea-party level ideological purity out of here. Progressives have common core values but they don't vote one lockstep way. Progressives by definition are for policies that help move or change this country for the better, Clinton is to the left of Obama and a progressive certainly can vote for her. Even if you're holding your nose, it doesn't mean you compromised your "principles", because progressives don't have a monolithic set of them. We are for policies that evidence shows will work better than the current system. That's it.

Thank you.

There is a weird obsession with purity in the Democratic voter base right now.

 

[Baron Aloha]

I swear it seems like for every 1 Bernie supporter I see who says they won't vote for Hillary I see 10 posts by Hillary supporters shaming them. Get over it. She's not entitled to anyone's vote.

How is this thread even so long? Bottom line, Bernie guys should know that they've done well so far, better than I ever thought at least. They should take the L on the election, even if they bloody hate Clinton, because that's the best chance they have of getting Bernie 2.0 into the white house.

You guys hate the establishment I get it. But you have to play its game a little longer if you want the results you want. Hell even if Bernie got in I imagine the change you're dreaming about wouldn't be as grand in reality.

Some of us Bernie supporters have been playing the game for 20+ years. I've been playing it long enough to know that Bernie is a once in a lifetime candidate and that Bernie 2.0 is probably at least another 20-30 years away. It's not so much about anti-establishment or "change" - it's about having a voice in the White House that speaks and fights for the average working person.

IMO, the best chance to get Bernie 2.0 any time soon (i.e. not 20-30 years from now) is to get Bernie 1.0 in the White House.

I'll support Clinton if she gets the nomination but I won't cry if/when she loses. I think she is a deeply flawed candidate.

What's probably going to happen is she will win and in 8 years it will be Castro running saying he will continue the same policies as Obama/Hillary and you will see the same people come out and trot the same arguments about electability and the supreme court.

 

[dave is ok]

Thank you.

There is a weird obsession with purity in the Democratic voter base right now.

Because every presidential election cycle we are given a right-of-center corporatist candidate and are told that they are totes progressive, when in most other first world countries they'd be considered far right

 

[Coffee Dog]

If you do not vote Hillary, you're either a racist or at the very least a racism enabler through your inaction and ignorance.

It really is that cut and dry. In a situation where you have a choice to support minority communities or not, what does it say about you if you abstain?

 

[The Technomancer]

Because every presidential election cycle we are given a right-of-center corporatist candidate and are told that they are totes progressive, when in most other first world countries they'd be considered far right

I don't think Europe gets to say this anymore. There's some real nasty stuff re-emerging in Europe right now

 

[Kountry]

I will not vote for Hillary, period. But I will still vote, because the down ticket elections are still important.

But if my vote for not-Hillary changes the presidential election, so be it. I will not, for any reason, vote for someone that I cannot trust to lead the country. I will go to bed knowing I did my part even if it means the worst.

 

[Diablos]

Because every presidential election cycle we are given a right-of-center corporatist candidate and are told that they are totes progressive, when in most other first world countries they'd be considered far right

This is nothing new. Even Bernie is right-wing in comparison to the countries he praises. Further demonstrating why this weird obsession with purity in some parts of the party right now isn't really even fully justified.

 

[Shao Kahn on the Lawn]

The only people who should be getting offended by that post are the subset of Bernie supporters that it describes.

If Hillary supporters have been throwing the same rhetoric at Bernie supporters in general, then that would imply that the post is similarly directed at most Bernie supporters. But then you say that one post in which someone said they'll be voting for Trump isn't enough to warrant that, in which case Angelus' post was not directed at most Bernie supporters, but at the people like said Trump supporter.

So which is it? You can't have it both ways.

You and people like you continually conflate disaffection with Clinton as a vote in support of Trump and that shitpost was directed at just that: the disaffected. It simultaneously beat on a straw-man and the disaffected alike. Disparaging people who are not interested in Clinton as "traitors" and then berating them with every heinous accusation that you can think of is what I would expect from a Republican, not a Democrat.

There is a right way and a wrong way to address people on your side that are not necessarily interested in your candidate.

Right Way:

I am a huge fan of voting. I vote in every election, local, state, and federal, and have since I turned 18. The idea of skipping a vote to me is bizarre. This is pretty uncommon behavior, even in my age bracket.

In the age bracket of most of the people posting in this thread, it's even more unheard of. And frankly, if you're not voting in every election, I'm not really interested in hearing you shit on people who sit out a vote. The least important votes you're every going to make, mathematically, are your federal votes. And yet, it's the federal votes that make people write shitty OPs like this one, where they treat other human beings like garbage for little effect.

And it is producing little effect. It's actively driving people in the opposite direction you want them to go. Tactically, it's just a dumb thing to do. If you'd rather rage at people than reach out to them, frankly, I have to question your seriousness.

It's easy to yell at people who aren't doing what you want. It's much more complicated to try and understand and persuade them. And if you really care about the issues, rather than scoring points on other posters and rooting for your team, you'd be spending less time shouting at people and more time listening. The only certain thing is that you aren't going to change minds by telling people they're idiots.

If what you want is to make things better, this isn't the way to do it. If what you want is to focus attention on yourself and your righteous anger, then you're doing a great job.

Wrong Way:

If you do not vote Hillary, you're either a racist or at the very least a racism enabler through your inaction and ignorance.

It really is that cut and dry. In a situation where you have a choice to support minority communities or not, what does it say about you if you abstain?

 

[Orbis Tabula]

My view has always been this.

I'm the general election, I have the ability to attempt to move the country ever so slightly, in an almost insignificant, imperceptibly tiny way, in the direction I want it to go, or I can choose to not do that.

The choice is pretty clear. Either I do something that helps accomplish the what I want, or I refuse to do it. I can choose between what feels good, and what does good. Given that there are legitimate game theoretic reasons working against a third party, that means I choose whichever of the top two mostly closely matches my values. That's been the democrats every time.

I see voting Republican as working against my desires. Voting third party works against my desires. And not voting also works against my desires. I don't have the option to "do nothing." Even doing nothing has an effect, and it has an effect that works in the opposite of what I want.

So, yeah. As a Bernie supporter, I'll happily vote Hillary. I think that to do anything else would be stupid of me.

 

[The Technomancer]

I will not vote for Hillary, period. But I will still vote, because the down ticket elections are still important.

But if my vote for not-Hillary changes the presidential election, so be it. I will not, for any reason, vote for someone that I cannot trust to lead the country. I will go to bed knowing I did my part even if it means the worst.

The downticket stuff is great, it genuinely is, but there's no tangible impact from your vote abstinence other than your own internal righteousness. Sander's actual campaign has done 1000x more to "send a message" to the political establishment than any lack of votes because he didn't get the nomination in November ever will

 

[Makai]

If you do not vote Hillary, you're either a racist or at the very least a racism enabler through your inaction and ignorance.

It really is that cut and dry. In a situation where you have a choice to support minority communities or not, what does it say about you if you abstain?

If someone doesn't vote for your preferred candidate, they are a racist. Your friend group must be nondiverse if you really believe that.

 

[Coffee Dog]

You and people like you continually conflate disaffection with Clinton as a vote in support of Trump and that shitpost was directed at just that: the disaffected. It simultaneously beat on a straw-man and the disaffected alike. Disparaging people who are not interested in Clinton as "traitors" and then berating them with every heinous accusation that you can think of is what I would expect from a Republican, not a Democrat.

There is a right way and a wrong way to address people on your side that are not necessarily interested in your candidate.

Right Way:



Wrong Way:

I understand where you're coming from, but if you don't vote against Trump on election day I feel that the bolded is more true than you realize.

It's inaction in the face of something unquestionably deserving of action.

 

[QuantumZebra]

Hillary is not entitled to anyone's vote.

Right now I'm leaning towards not voting at all. Won't vote for Hillary, I refuse to vote for Loebsack after he sided with the GOP to block the refugees, and the Iowa Senate race is essentially irrelevant as Grassley is an immortal invincible vampire.

Donald Trump thanks you for your support!

Spoiler

seriously

 

[sheamus]

I don't like hilary if she is the nominee I'll just won't vote

 

[lednerg]

People personally identifying with the cynical, dismissive attitude towards Bernie supporters... you guys are bullshit. You're off my Christmas list, and no, fuck you.

 

[theignoramus]

According to at least one other poster in this thread, people who don't like Clinton either hate women or are young and ignorant.

the dislike maybe has something to do with Clintons role in silencing the victims of her sex predator husband, then having the audacity to tout herself as a supporter of victims of sexual assault.

 

[Coffee Dog]

If someone doesn't vote for your preferred candidate, they are a racist. Your friend group must be nondiverse if you really believe that.

If you, in clear mind and good health, decide to choose inaction over standing up for minority communities, then I have no qualms either believing you either actively have ill intent or so ignorant that the effect is the same.

It's not about loving hilary. It's about caring for your fellow man.

 

[Inferno313]

My view has always been this.

I'm the general election, I have the ability to attempt to move the country ever so slightly, in an almost insignificant, imperceptibly tiny way, in the direction I want it to go, or I can choose to not do that.

The choice is pretty clear. Either I do something that helps accomplish the what I want, or I refuse to do it. I can choose between what feels good, and what does good. Given that there are legitimate game theoretic reasons working against a third party, that means I choose whichever of the top two mostly closely matches my values. That's been the democrats every time.

I see voting Republican as working against my desires. Voting third party works against my desires. And not voting also works against my desires. I don't have the option to "do nothing." Even doing nothing has an effect, and it has an effect that works in the opposite of what I want.

So, yeah. As a Bernie supporter, I'll happily vote Hillary. I think that to do anything else would be stupid of me.

This is how I feel.

Do I think Hillary is a great choice? Not really. I have huge problems with some of her choices in the past.

However, I'm a Liberal/Progressive. I want this country to continue to become more Liberal/Progressive, so I'm going to vote for other folks on the Left even if they're not my ideal candidate.

Especially when the opposition on the right is such a disastrous option for our nation and the world.

 

[Orbis Tabula]

This is how I feel.

Do I think Hillary is a great choice? Not really. I have huge problems with some of her choices in the past.

However, I'm a Liberal/Progressive. I want this country to continue to become more Liberal/Progressive, so I'm going to vote for other folks on the Left even if they're not my ideal candidate.

Especially when the opposition on the right is such a disastrous option for our nation and the world.

Yeah, exactly. I'd love it if there were more choices, but there really aren't. Given the small menu of options I have to choose from, Hillary Clinton is clearly the best one, even if I'm not in love with her.

 

[jaxpunk]

If you do not vote Hillary, you're either a racist or at the very least a racism enabler through your inaction and ignorance.

It really is that cut and dry. In a situation where you have a choice to support minority communities or not, what does it say about you if you abstain?

Fucking lol. Maybe I think your the racist trying to throw everyone off your scent by claiming everyone else is racist.

Racist.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

If you don't vote you a part of the problem and play right into the GOP's hands. They don't want people, especially young people and minorities to vote. Not voting is a vote for the GOP, and do you really want Trump or Cruz to be president? Especially when they will likely have the opportunity to appoint several Supreme Court justices and undo all of the progress made rhe last 8 years? Incredibly stupidly fucking selfish if you don't vote.

I believe that voting should be made mandatory with financial penalties for failing to vote. Of course elections should take place over more than one day and voting should be a required paid holiday for all citizens.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

Now is for the time in the Hillary camp to be inclusive of Bernie Supporters.
Bernie has done an awesome job of capturing millennials and getting new people engaged in politics. It's time to make them feel welcome.

However, I've also seen the theory that Hillary is going to have a tough time getting re-elected. If so many people are voting for her reluctantly, she's going to have a hard time making the case to vote for her again for a second term.
And there's a good chance she gets slaughtered in the mid terms and state governments continue to turn red.

 

[Clefargle]

Because every presidential election cycle we are given a Left-of-center moderate candidate and are told that they are totes conservative, when in most other first world countries they'd be considered far left

See how easy it is to make your post look like a tea party nutjob? America is moving left and we will get progressives in office. It's not immediately possible and Bernies numbers are showing that. Give it time

 

[Orbis Tabula]

Now is for the time in the Hillary camp to be inclusive of Bernie Supporters.
Bernie has done an awesome job of capturing millennials and getting new people engaged in politics. It's time to make them feel welcome.

This is also true. It's very important that the Clinton camp do what they can to make Bernie fans feel welcome. We're all on the same side here.

 

[NIGHT-]

If you do not vote Hillary, you're either a racist or at the very least a racism enabler through your inaction and ignorance.

It really is that cut and dry. In a situation where you have a choice to support minority communities or not, what does it say about you if you abstain?

Maybe we just don't want to do our part to put a corporate shill in the office. She's scum

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Maybe we just don't want to do our part to put a corporate shill in the office. She's scum

Someone has to be president. The choice is either Trump or Hillary. Either you help Hillary become president or you help Trump become president. There is no alternative, our system doesn't allow any other outcome or choice.

 

[NIGHT-]

Someone has to be president. The choice is either Trump or Hillary.

And it'll be decided without my vote. Not that it matters, my state will heavily vote in Trump

 

[Makai]

If you, in clear mind and good health, decide to choose inaction over standing up for minority communities, then I have no qualms either believing you either actively have ill intent or so ignorant that the effect is the same.

It's not about loving hilary. It's about caring for your fellow man.

It's presumptuous and extremely rude. If you're a conservative, you want a Republican in the White House to nominate justices, anchor budget negotiations, and not veto the repeal of Obamacare.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

This is also true. It's very important that the Clinton camp do what they can to make Bernie fans feel welcome. We're all on the same side here.

What can the Clinton camp do to make Bernie fans feel welcome? It's hard when you have to welcome people like this:

Maybe we just don't want to do our part to put a corporate shill in the office. She's scum

 

[Transhuman]

and why count Bernie out already? Let's wait a bit.

There are plenty of reasons to have a very strong, very valid dislike of Hilary Clinton. I don't believe she has a genuine ideological bone in her body.

How about instead of trying to guilt bernie fans into voting for clinton or yelling at them that they're just privileged kids, Hillary supporters listen to what issues the bernie fans care about and empathize with the fact that they're going to have no one to represent their most important issues this election.

I supported Bernie, it's obvious he's not going to get the nomination- Hillary does not represent my interests, so she will not get my vote. But Trump certainly will not either.

Bernie's campaign is surging and he'll have my vote in the primaries June 7th. After that, if he loses to Hillary, I'll go back to the drawing board and look at both candidates through a new lens. Really, really hoping it doesn't come to that.

 

[Kountry]

The downticket stuff is great, it genuinely is, but there's no tangible impact from your vote abstinence other than your own internal righteousness. Sander's actual campaign has done 1000x more to "send a message" to the political establishment than any lack of votes because he didn't get the nomination in November ever will

So? She has to earn my vote. Down ticket canidates can do it. The local boy scout and girl scout leaders can do it. Hillary has had years to do it. If she can't convince me, after so many years in public office, that she is a decent enough human being that she can be trusted in the White House to run the country, why should I vote for her?

And no, I don't subscribe to the 'A vote for not-Hillary is a vote for Trump' newsletter bullshit. So convince me some other way.

 

[Poodlestrike]

ITT: Both Parties Are The Same.

God, I wish that sort of shit would go away forever. The level of misinformation, apathy, and outright stupidity out there never ceases to amaze me. If you think that Hillary is in any way on the same level as Trump, I don't even know what to fucking tell you. Maybe try and get your head out of your ass before you suffocate.

inb4 "oh, look at the self-superior Hillary supporter, get off your high horse." I'm not self superior, I'm just the regular sort. If you really decide that your best bet is to either not vote or throw your vote behind a third party because you really, REALLY think that there's nothing to choose between Hillary and Trump, you have demonstrated such a lack of critical thinking and empathy that it really does make me better than you. Full stop.

So? She has to earn my vote. Down ticket canidates can do it. The local boy scout and girl scout leaders can do it. Hillary has had years to do it. If she can't convince me, after so many years in public office, that she is a decent enough human being that she can be trusted in the White House to run the country, why should I vote for her?

And no, I don't subscribe to the 'A vote for not-Hillary is a vote for Trump' newsletter bullshit. So convince me some other way.

Start subscribing. It's the truth. That's how it WORKS in a 2 party system. A vote for one candidate is a vote against the other. A lack of a vote for one candidate is a vote for the other. That's just how the fucking math works.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

And it'll be decided without my vote. Not that it matters, my state will heavily vote in Trump

How exactly is she a shill?

What are some of the issues you care about? Do you think this country could benefit from 3 left leaning SCOTUS judges? Or do you think 3 new young 40 yr Antonin Scalias would make no difference to this country?

Do you want Obamacare completely repealed?

 

[balladofwindfishes]

And no, I don't subscribe to the 'A vote for not-Hillary is a vote for Trump' newsletter bullshit. So convince me some other way.

Low turnout helps conservatives. Trump is a conservative. Thus, not voting helps Trump.

This is a fact. There's no newsletter or opinion on the matter, there's only voter history.

 

[Orbis Tabula]

What can the Clinton camp do to make Bernie fans feel welcome? It's hard when you have to welcome people like this:

Oh, absolutely. I phrased that poorly. I don't mean the Clinton campaign. I mean more that there's a small group of Clinton supporters who are just insufferably poor winners. They're very much a minority, but just as the crazy Bernie Sanders fans have hurt his image, gloating Clinton fans can hurt hers.

 

[AlphaDump]

my votes are risk based. i dont love Hillary, she is just the best option this election.

to me this election is critical that the republicans do not win. it really comes down to 2 parties despite us wanting to think an indepedent vote will do anything. not voting for hillary is a vote in indirect support of trump. There is too much on the table for personal pride.

we cannot afford to give them all 3 branches. period.

 

[Inferno313]

Low turnout helps conservatives. Trump is a conservative. Thus, not voting helps Trump.

This is a fact. There's no newsletter or opinion on the matter, there's only voter history.

Yeah, it's not even complicated.

In a football game, when one team fails to make a touchdown, it increases the chance of the other team winning even if they didn't actually score anything. That's how the basic premises of competition work.