boiled goose
good with gravy
Again, the condescending bullshit Aganst young people excited about politics.
Dont like what young people want? Just Fucking ignore them. Gee wonder why they feel they have no voice.
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This "I'm a progressive but if Hillary is the nominee, I'm not voting" shit is stale
- Thread starter PlayALLtheGames
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Again, the condescending bullshit Aganst young people excited about politics.
Dont like what young people want? Just Fucking ignore them. Gee wonder why they feel they have no voice.
balladofwindfishes
Member
But one of them WILL be president, so it doesn't really matter that you don't want either of them.
LOL
HUELEN10, you've already been pretty clear about being a Trump supporter. Don't bullshit people.
THIS. One of them will win. You can influence who will not.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
So weird to see people so passionate about issues yet won't show up to vote. They are so angry about billionaires/millionaires and by not showing up they will probably help a 1% percent into the white house lol.
Who does that? That's the kind of shit the Tea party does. I will vote for Bernie, but if he loses I'll show up to vote for Hilary. How hard is that?
I voted for Obama in the primaries and I would have voted for Hilary is she beat him. No way in hell I was going to let Sarah Palin any where near the oval office.
Who does that? That's the kind of shit the Tea party does. I will vote for Bernie, but if he loses I'll show up to vote for Hilary. How hard is that?
I voted for Obama in the primaries and I would have voted for Hilary is she beat him. No way in hell I was going to let Sarah Palin any where near the oval office.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
UncleSporky
Member
In other words, voting doesn't matter. Vote, don't vote, you don't get what you want anyway.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
Trump is the type to punish those who didn't vote for him if he's elected. People should consider voting him just in case, otherwise you could end up in a camp somewhere /s
HUELEN10 was all about Carson for unspecified reasons before, I'm not sure this member should even be considered as part of the Sanders voting base.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Yeah. It's some lesser-of-two-evils shit. Frankly, I can see why people think of this as a good point of protest, but it's very short-term with long-term risks.
Falling behind what?
I'm sorry, you live in a nation with 1/10th the U.S. population that is largely a white hegemony. You do zero heavy lifting on the world stage diplomatically or militarily. You have a first world existence because you border the United States' wealthiest cities.
You're a free rider. Until you stop being a free rider you don't have a whole lot of room to criticize.
God Dayumm
Banned
This is why blank and null votes should be counted and if they are the majority the candidates of the major parties are jailed and the country governed by an interim cabinet appointed by the Supreme Court until they hold elections again the following year
You trying to argue Hillary tried to take away abortion rights? She didn't deny free healthcare either, she was the spearhead of it in the 90s. She advocated for and put in policies to extend rights to LGBT recently, so that's also a wash. And while she voted for the Iraq War, which part of her platform has "making the US the big brother police of the Middle East"?
As a last point, Canada doesn't have the military capacity or foreign policy clout to do much of anything, so of course Harper couldn't do any of that. lol
timetokill
Banned
Hillary is a one percenter.
Either way you're getting a one percenter in the White House.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Yup... funny he missed that.
why it solely Hillary's responsibility to have to "earn" those votes? Shouldn't Bernie also do his part to campaign for Hillary? that's why the party apparatus and primary system exists, isn't it? So people with like-minded goals don't have to end up cannibalizing one another along the way.
balladofwindfishes
Member
If you read it like that, I don't know what to tell you.
Fact is, either Trump or Hillary will be president. No ifs ands or buts there. It's one or the other. So as a voter you need to decide which of the two you'd rather have. If you'd rather have neither, sucks to be you. Pick the one you'd rather have. There is no other option.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
shoplifter
Member
Real answer: the people on the far left don't have money to donate
RustyNails
Member
It's not about liking what young people want :lol. They dont care what they want. I'm 31. I have seen my friends and family completely oblivious of what a primary even means. The data backs it up. It says under-30 vote is pathetic, and has been for a while. The younger vote group doesn't mean anything to politicians because they dont vote dont even field candidates for local elections. Hispanic, Latino, Black, Unions, Christians, etc, they all vote and have worked to create local grassroots efforts to field candidates from their communities.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
It's this strange complex where people want to be pandered to, but then they don't actually like being pandered to when it happens.
Really it's just a lot of excuses for total apathy and inaction.
Damn people are posting fast in this thread.
Truthfully I don't think we know what the hell Trump would really do if he was president since he's a pathological liar and don't ever say the same thing twice. Look we've had 8 years of Obama and this country is still going down the shitter. Sure we've gotten some progress thanks to protesters. But in a lot of ways we've taken 1 step forward and 1.5 steps back. I believe Hilary is going to continue on that path.
What I'm hoping is that actual Democrats will eventually see that she isn't any better than a more moderate Republican and finally stop voting for people like the Clintons and Obama and vote for somebody that'll actually make postive changes.
No kidding. I don't believe she'll make progress, just that she probably won't deport people on the level of what every republican candidate so far has been pushing for.
Truthfully I don't think we know what the hell Trump would really do if he was president since he's a pathological liar and don't ever say the same thing twice. Look we've had 8 years of Obama and this country is still going down the shitter. Sure we've gotten some progress thanks to protesters. But in a lot of ways we've taken 1 step forward and 1.5 steps back. I believe Hilary is going to continue on that path.
What I'm hoping is that actual Democrats will eventually see that she isn't any better than a more moderate Republican and finally stop voting for people like the Clintons and Obama and vote for somebody that'll actually make postive changes.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Harsh
We have same-sex marriage, we're making serious progress wrt accountability for police officers, we could wind up with a liberal majority for the Supreme Court. Certainly the country is not in a good place, but I do not understand what hand Obama had in it, and why the country had a net loss progressively.
Further, we don't know what Trump believes, and that makes it all the more terrifying an idea to elect him. It just sounds like you're putting a lot of things at risk because it might make things better.
Perhaps "big-brother" was the wrong term, what I went was "hawkish" but in the sense that she wants America to be involved globally. And she was against gay rights as late as 2010 if I recall correctly, and has only (relatively) recently gone for it. As for the healthcare thing, that whole model is weak by todays standards and you know it. Even by 1993 that model was dated for what was peddled as the best country in the world.
Nope either or fallacy is awful. I need to vote for who I want.
balladofwindfishes
Member
You have two choices. Not voting for either still picks one (in this case, Trump).
I'm sorry you don't like the system, but them's the brakes.
boiled goose
good with gravy
So here is an aspect of the discussion that I think is interesting.
Clearly, I think most of GAF agrees that having the GOP in power leads to short term to medium term to maybe even long term damage to the country.
Now, is there any merit to the Bernie or Bust or Bernie or Trump strategy in the long run? The message to the parties would be that people are tired of the same old politicians and want populist candidates. If Hillary loses to Trump? Would the democrat party move left? Is there a scenario in which this is actually beneficial for the country in the long run?
We have seen the opposite happen in the GOP with Goldwater. When he lost, he made way for Reagan, whose legacy we are still dealing with today.
Clearly, I think most of GAF agrees that having the GOP in power leads to short term to medium term to maybe even long term damage to the country.
Now, is there any merit to the Bernie or Bust or Bernie or Trump strategy in the long run? The message to the parties would be that people are tired of the same old politicians and want populist candidates. If Hillary loses to Trump? Would the democrat party move left? Is there a scenario in which this is actually beneficial for the country in the long run?
We have seen the opposite happen in the GOP with Goldwater. When he lost, he made way for Reagan, whose legacy we are still dealing with today.
BeatnikGunsoo
Member
wow what a silly post
I mean I hate to ask this, but are you white?
if so, I get it
If not, then I don't get it
we liberals are so smart we're fucking stupid
boiled goose
good with gravy
I think what would be the ideal case is that Hillary and Bernie come to some form of agreement. Bernie will endorse and campaign for her in exchange for some policy concessions that he can get behind and use to rally his supporters.
Elfforkusu
Member
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
"Overthrowing the government" is a real thing that's happened many times in human history with positive results.
It feels unrealistic, but it really isn't if everyone would just work together. It's frustrating reading and hearing everyone complain about our government and the two-party system, but no one makes even the smallest steps to do anything about it.
I think they already agree on nearly everything to some degree though.
Who gives a shit if she was for gay rights or not, the very reason LGBT people can marry now is thanks to SCOTUS.
Even if Obama wasn't fond of gay rights in his last 2 SCOTUS nomination in the end they decided correctly.
On the local/state level however we have plenty of elected judges who really hated that decision enough to go against SCOTUS directly, but hey voting doesn't matter amirite.
boiled goose
good with gravy
I agree with almost everything here.
People keep saying this, and they miss exactly why some people support Bernie over Hillary. There are KEY differences, and too many, these differences are their most important issues today. For example, for me personally, issue by issue I agree on more issues with Hillary than with Bernie, but I agree with Bernie on the biggest issues.
shoplifter
Member
This might actually be a good way to get me to vote for her, provided it's not half assed lip service.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Not voting for Hillary makes each vote for Trump incrementally more powerful.
Okay but both the gay rights and free health care would have been political sucide for him to deny or try to revoke when he was in office considering we had those long before he was in office and long after he is gone. The war thing especially with Iraq was a mistake but she wasn't the only one to do that plus we supported them over there. Harper has done worst than Clinton has and I don't get how you would say he was better than her.
uncelestial
Member
If people choose to not vote because they don't feel represented, that's a valid stance. Voting is not a game of obedience, and it's up to the parties and the candidates to decide on a nominee that captures the interests and passions of voters.
Hillary is does not meet the ideals of many progressives, so they don't want to vote for her. You don't get to say to them that they should. They get to say to Hillary that they don't want to. That's how it works.
Now, I personally am a socialist compared to Hillary and am way, way to her left, and I can justify voting for her based on a "lesser of two evils" argument. In many other aspects of life I have to suck it up and compromise, so I can stomach doing it on the ballot easily. I will be voting for Clinton in the general election.
But I absolutely do not blame progressives for not wanting to, and nobody owes Hillary a damn thing.
Hillary is does not meet the ideals of many progressives, so they don't want to vote for her. You don't get to say to them that they should. They get to say to Hillary that they don't want to. That's how it works.
Now, I personally am a socialist compared to Hillary and am way, way to her left, and I can justify voting for her based on a "lesser of two evils" argument. In many other aspects of life I have to suck it up and compromise, so I can stomach doing it on the ballot easily. I will be voting for Clinton in the general election.
But I absolutely do not blame progressives for not wanting to, and nobody owes Hillary a damn thing.
they don't need to, Bernie's already said many times (during multiple debates as well as during his NH win speech) that if it's between Hillary and one of the republicans the choice is obvious
now it might be smart for Hillary to adopt a lot of Bernie's platform to ease the transition for his supporters and she's already doing that, as spoofed by that SNL skit where she slowly transforms into Bernie.
It's more likely that if Hillary loses to Trump the party will move toward the center. Hillary is more liberal than Obama domestically, if Obama can produce results when Hillary can't the party will see it as a cue to put out another Obama, certainly not a Bernie.
Exactly. Just because Obama (and Hillary) can't afford to publicly state their support for something, doesn't mean their actions aren't going to be working towards that goal. For all the talk of how untrustworthy politicians are, you'd think this would be a lot easier for people to understand. Yeah, Hillary is dishonest and will claim that whatever SCOTUS justice that she nominates is a moderate -- that's because that's how you get liberals on the court and liberal policies advanced.
what the fuck are you talking about
It's slow and steady right now. We align things properly and in the near future, it won't have to be.
Granted, that being said it's still not going to be instantaneous. This country is enormous and hugely divided. It's not ethical to just drag the majority by the hair into a better tomorrow. We have to actually get the country in a state where we can take that next step without having to enact the kind of armed insurrection you're talking about that nine times in ten results in tyranny no matter what the revolutionaries are selling.
A Link to the Past
Banned
My only issue is that if people want to abstain, that's their right, but they should also take responsibility for the end result of their abstaining, for better or worse.
Melkezadek
Member
"I'm voting Sanders, but if he doesn't win the primaries I'm not voting for Hilary or Trump. My state is red anyway, so it won't matter."
Why bother voting at all then? I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this logic. If Bernie had one, it still "wouldn't matter" because you live in a red state.
Why bother voting at all then? I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this logic. If Bernie had one, it still "wouldn't matter" because you live in a red state.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
You want to start a leftist coup in a country that's 40% right wing lunatics armed to the teeth?
Good luck.
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