The logic behind the Stella/Luna name change sounds dumb to me but it's whatever at this point. I feel like their determination to distinguish the two characters from each other only fueled the fire more. I still basically saw her as the same woman, just in a much different form than was a originally intended, and whatever hopes I had for Stella, however misguided they may have been, were just transferred to Luna.
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[USGamer] Hajime Tabata Reflects on Transformation of Versus XIII to Final Fantasy XV
- Thread starter Koozek
- Start date
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Phil
PshycoNinja
Member
The actual full quote:
KZXcellent
Member
Sean Spicer.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
All these versus interviews, somebody ask the real questions, when's the episode prompto trailer drop
Seven Force
Banned
They'd have been dealing with a fickle fanbase regardless. I think they made the right call.
While I agree that FF15 has its problems, anyone who says it wasn't a memorable experience should be shown the door. What I mean is the daily campfires, the photos, the exploration, the scale of the world, the music, and so on. It didn't quite gel as a whole but some of my fondest gaming memories are now of these little moments and it makes me miss the game sometimes. It was a wonderful two weeks for me even though it ended on a "wait, what?". So for me the journey and experience made the game, not so much the storytelling which quite frankly I had no idea what was going on.
...you are kind of getting old...I'm going to see what ishida's been up to.
edit: oh my.
AgentLampshade
Member
Maybe one of these days I'll get the Versus XIII I wanted, but that's not why I'm ultimately disappointed in XV. I don't think it should have been revealed the way it was though- with the characters from Versus and the Versus logo shattering and forming a near identical XV one. That set up an expectation that they've only just started to fix - months after the game is out. I remember they kept dodging whether or not Luna was Stella too back in the day. Why erase a character only to replace them with a doppelganger?
I'm disappointed in XV because it felt shallow. Characters didn't get enough screentime, others were forgotten about and the rest lived ONLY for Noctis. Sidequests felt superficial, the world felt hollow and the story took a dramatic "wtf is going on!?" turn at the drop of a hat. Nah, can't say I'm a fan of Tabata's style. I couldn't finish Type 0 either.
I'm disappointed in XV because it felt shallow. Characters didn't get enough screentime, others were forgotten about and the rest lived ONLY for Noctis. Sidequests felt superficial, the world felt hollow and the story took a dramatic "wtf is going on!?" turn at the drop of a hat. Nah, can't say I'm a fan of Tabata's style. I couldn't finish Type 0 either.
KZXcellent
Member
It seems unavoidable. The XV/Versus 2013 trailer I have to assume was made before they decided to throw out most of what they had with Versus. I'm sure they would have liked to and would have started fresh.
I enjoyed the hype moments of FFXV but I agree that a lot of it fell flat. It'd be interesting to see what another year would have done to it, but we got what we got.
Because one was potentially going to be a cool swordswoman like Celes or Beatrix, and what we got instead was yet another Rosa/Shrine Maiden character.
There's just been way too much of the latter, both in the FF franchise and out.
Yea... creative dudes are weird.
Alex_Mexico
Member
We have very little reason to believe Stella would've been any better outside of a couple of 10 year old trailers where she stands in front of a Noctis in apparent defiance.
She was never a thing. Critizice XV for what it is but stop clamoring for unfulfilled ideas from an unfinished concept once named Versus XIII
WrenchNinja
Member
Maximum bullshit
We really don't know. Those are just rumors, never confirmed.
LouisaFerre
Member
In hindsight I still think it was kind of a mistake to make Versus into FFXV at all. Not much to be done about it now, though. Just kind of a shame how much work went into both projects that probably won't see the light of day.
Alex_Mexico
Member
First time reading that leaked info. I'm extremely curious about what was so wrong about Luna that they decided to cut entire scenes out of the game. The alleged ex employee said something about her being abused? FFXV has some glaring problems when it came to its portrayal of women as it is so I'd like to know what made Luna worse?!
Luna was apparently abused as a child by a Niflheim commander IIRC.
KimonoNoNo
Member
I know it's easy to wish for something that will never be, but the whole death cult angle of Versus would have been really cool change of tone for a Final Fantasy game.
I agree with you. I actually am one of the few that defend and will still defend the decision to cut Stella. If she didn't work out the way they wanted there was absolutely zero reason to include her. However, her replacement in the form of Luna was absolute trash. She is a badly written character that we barely see, that undergoes three personality changes, and in the end we're supposed to feel and care for her? No. It's bad.
Astral Dog
Member
Fans were already used to the Versus characters,ut helped them a bit to achieve those 6 million sales than starting again
He hit the nail on the head on what was not quite right about XV for me. Or rather why it doesn't feel like Versus XIII despite the shared world and characters.
It's the realism, rather than the stylish of the trailers. Versus XIII was supposed to be a Fantasy based on reality, but it still was very stylish and dark and kind of anime. XV actually IS the Fantasy based on reality, and it feels totally different as a result.
Not that that's a bad thing necessarily.
It's the realism, rather than the stylish of the trailers. Versus XIII was supposed to be a Fantasy based on reality, but it still was very stylish and dark and kind of anime. XV actually IS the Fantasy based on reality, and it feels totally different as a result.
Not that that's a bad thing necessarily.
KZXcellent
Member
Given the state of Square-Enix last generation it's not surprising.
Ganon Dragmire
Member
Still saying that the story is from Nocto's POV eh Tabata?
Tabata: Quite some time has passed now After we had switched from Versus to XV, the first decision we made was to make sure that FFXV would have a complete, coherent story in one game.
http://www.siliconera.com/2015/06/0...i-any-more-says-director/#YsR0oVMq4I6mWBLU.99
Tabata:The world and the events that Noctis sees are merely things that are seen through his eyes. We didnt want to create a comprehensive and perfectly balanced story in this game.
http://www.novacrystallis.com/2017/...-xv-story-imbalances-latter-half-game-linear/
Dark_castle
Junior Member
I don't think people are thinking straight up that the DLC are removed parts of the game, but they added in those three moments in the main story to make it easy for them to do DLC in the future. So instead of "Gladio leaves the party cause it'll make the story better" it was more of "Hey don't forget to have Gladio leave during this so we can do that DLC idea later on. "
Those 3 moments were obviously reserved for the DLC. Which is fine I guess but the story suffered cause of it and they didn't do anything remedy it.
Playing XV its really painfully obvious at how hard the team struggled to tie all the ideas they had into the Versus framework, and in general tie the game together.
A lot didnt work and FFXV isnt the game it should have been. However the fact that this team got it to work as well as they did seems like a minor miriacle.
Hopefully FFXVI will be a much easier process for all involved.
Edit
ersonal Musings
A lot didnt work and FFXV isnt the game it should have been. However the fact that this team got it to work as well as they did seems like a minor miriacle.
Hopefully FFXVI will be a much easier process for all involved.
Versus 13 is still among the best concept trailers i have ever seen. However we now know that nobody at square really knew why that trailer worked given the leaked Versus 13 plot.
Edit
ersonal Musings
At first i thought it would be really frustrating for me as i typically get caught pining for my own idealized version. Someday i will write a much too long GAF thread about FFXVs narative successes and failures as well as what it should have been. Still FFXV has that essential FF quality where you just lose yourself to the beautiful world and sense of adventure and all of that melts away.
To be fair the story is complete... it's just not coherent.
Cor is there for like 15 minutes in the final game.
If you're hungry for more, Gladio's DLC.
IDK, I feel like he was a great, yet so very underused character. It goes in the wasted potential category, one at which FFXV excels at.
I enjoyed it though, but it could have been so much more.
If you're hungry for more, Gladio's DLC.
IDK, I feel like he was a great, yet so very underused character. It goes in the wasted potential category, one at which FFXV excels at.
I enjoyed it though, but it could have been so much more.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Tabata should look at Yoko Taro's Nier Automata and think to himself:"How this guy with 1/10th of my budget created such a superior game in every aspect?".
We don't care about Luna or Stella, what matters is how you end with such a shitty story and how a guy that wears a mask can write in 20 lines in a weapon a much better plot that the entirity of FFXV.
We don't care about Luna or Stella, what matters is how you end with such a shitty story and how a guy that wears a mask can write in 20 lines in a weapon a much better plot that the entirity of FFXV.
Oh Yoko Taro games in general are now the gold standard in EVERY respect? First game he's ever made with anything better the mediocre combat is because of Platinum. Don't get me wrong, story wise he blows him outta the water but by THAT standard he blows Nomura and everyone else at SE outta the water to.
Yabberwocky
Member
I'm not against story DLC, and see a lot of benefit to it, especially to keep dev teams in a job and on a project a bit longer. That being said, it doesn't leave a bit of a bad taste towards FFXV, with Gladio in particular just up and unsubtly disappearing from the story for a bit. Prompto's subplot is something that should have been resolved in the main game, and the incident with Ignis kinda gets glossed over a bit. It creates a uneven feel towards the story told in the main game, which already has enough issues without leaving spots for DLC. I guess I feel like a Young Regis DLC would be more justifiable, because that's not necessarily all that relevant to the story in the main game, and doesn't affect the coherent flow of the story told in the game itself. I love XV's world and characters, just the problem with how the story has been executed really disappoints me.
Just, man, imagine FFVII, and paying for Barret's, Red XIII's, Vincent's, and Sephiroth's subplot/backstories at DLCs. arrrggh
The FFXV weapon story honestly did a better job exploring the
dynamic that the actual bloody game itself. Brotherhood also did well in that regard.
Me reading the XV weapon story -
Just, man, imagine FFVII, and paying for Barret's, Red XIII's, Vincent's, and Sephiroth's subplot/backstories at DLCs. arrrggh
The FFXV weapon story honestly did a better job exploring the
Noctis/Regis
Me reading the XV weapon story -
DarkLordMalik
Member
Good point. I definitely agree here. They could have found clever ways to make way for DLC and they just didn't. These are 3 of the biggest flaws in the overall narrative.
I love comments like these since NieR Automata's brilliance is not solely the work of Yoko Taro but Platinum Games is also responsible. Leave PG and see the work of Yoko Taro and it was always some critical dud.
This is not to throw a shade on NA since I think it fully deserves the critical reception it has received, but you are putting all the success on the heels of Yoko Taro, which is wrong. Platinum Games should also be mentioned and not just Taro alone. That would have been different if he had a stellar record in the past.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Sure, just saying that Yoko Taro knew how to work within the boundaries of the budget he was provided and still offer a 10x much coherent plot and characters, that's not only on PG.
And yeah, YT writing sensibilities kicks the fuck out of every damn writer in SE. But I think Nier Automata is a perfect testament of how much FFXV failed in key aspects this game succeded.
I think people really focuses, wrongly on Stella and similar things, but the real problem was how Luna was never a good substitue of a proper female heroine. We can talk about the reduced role of Cor, but what can we actually say of a character that was relegated to look badass with a katana with no actual character development, or character for that matter.
Ah, okay then were closer to the same page, because Taro before Automata is a man with great stories and shit game design/combat with only Nier clawing into mediocre. Revisionist history because of Automata's success can be annoying.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I think PG did a damn good job on NA, but I think what makes truly memorable the game is Taro's directing and writing.
But I don't want to derail this more, so I'll leave at this. Blame it on how much I'm loving NA and the few beers I had.
But I'll say this: For me is highly irrelevant, yet I'm sure it would be the source of a very awesome article/book, how Versus became XV. At this point it dosn't matter anymore, neither explains where the game succeded or failed.
The guy who did that AMAZING Polygon Article on the making of 7 would be perfect for that story.
Pipe dream but maybe after Remake/KH3/XV patches/BD5's next game.
One can dream at least.
This is completely unfair to the FFXV team. The Nier Automata team got to start from scratch. FFXV was always struggling to piece 2 very different storys together in a way that fans wanted.
Imagine if someone said to Yoko Taro. We know you want to make a Nier game, but the first wasnt very successful so you have to fit it within the Killzone IP. He could probably do something fantastic but the task is much harder.
Also Square and the FFXV team created some of this problem for themselves with the Omen trailer. It may be an Alt reality, but in many ways it understood what people wanted from FFXV. They wanted A Love Interes that was the Final Boss. Someone who was the protagonists equal and complimentary piece who had been forced by Fate/Circumstance to take a different path and that was the games central conflict.
KojiKnight
Member
I don't think you can spoil a game that's never going to exist but...
Stella was going to be dead from the beginning, killed by noctis though unknown by the player. She was never going to be a party member, and she was never going to be a bad ass. She'd have still been like Stella in the second half of the game, only from the very beginning. Just a doll that exists to push. Noct towards some story beats.
On point.
Not much to add here.Changing to Luna(or story changes in general) wouldn't have mattered,if she they were great.
I despise the combat too,however.Gameplay in general is rife with problems.