Not entirely. It's coherent but disjointed.
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[USGamer] Hajime Tabata Reflects on Transformation of Versus XIII to Final Fantasy XV
- Thread starter Koozek
- Start date
Not entirely. It's coherent but disjointed.
vainglorious
Member
lol There's nothing coherent about the plot. I spent the majority of my playtime trying to figure out why I was doing what I was doing.
FlutterPuffs
Member
In defence of Tabata, he was asked to develop a game where the development was in a clusterfuck, not from scratch.
Yoko Taro is still a better writer though, just that impressed how Tabata managed to salvage the project, although it could be a whole lot better.
odhiex
Member
I finished the game, it was a great game, a tremendous achievement for what it is... especially compare to FF XIII fabula nova crystalis bullshit
Not perfect though, and I think the Final Fantasy versus XIII would probably ended up disappointing just like FF XIII did if it is came out.
Not perfect though, and I think the Final Fantasy versus XIII would probably ended up disappointing just like FF XIII did if it is came out.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Tabata is a businessman, not a creator.
Muffdraul
Member
I think he's completely off the mark. Whatever was happening to the character behind the scenes, if they had just kept the name Stella, 99% of the Luna drama could have been avoided.
Chaserjoey
Member
And like 110% new drama would have occurred instead. Like Tabata said, if they kept the name Stella and kept her original design instead of rebranding to Luna, fans would have been angry because it didn't live up to their expectations of that character.
I fully believe that Versus XIII wasn't much of anything other than a bunch of proof of concept trailers, but he's also basically admitting that they transformed what little was produced under this name into FFXV to take advantage of fan enthusiasm.
If there really was so little work done on Versus, then why not start the project from scratch instead?
If there really was so little work done on Versus, then why not start the project from scratch instead?
Muffdraul
Member
Bullshit. The vast majority of fans who were aware there was a character named Stella would have seen the name and not given it a second thought.
3 games worth of scripts were written for Versus by late ~2010. Like, the work that could be done without a full team was.
They kept the characters because they were hurting financially after the failure of the original FFXIV and the severe sales drops FFXIII-2 and Lightning Returns suffered (which is probably why Nomura was taken off the project, a three game saga was deemed too risky - it's also probably why he's in charge of FFVII remake, doing exactly what he wanted to do with Versus XIII, just with brand recognition to offset the risk).
Because SE cant afford to delay this game any longer.
You can't be serious, literally all the hype for Stella hinged on people remembering that iconic showdown with Noctis and Nomura telling people they would be tragic enemies, you really think for a second if they had just put Stella in Luna's place there wouldn't be backlash at the huge change? Are you insane? "Tabata ruined Stella" would be the screeched in every thread.
At least this way Stella fans can take there 5 minutes of screen time and live in there fantasy land where there was more to her.
Scripts aren't worth much, and I'd argue that Tabata agrees with me seeing the end result.
Hindsight is 20/20 and all that, but FFXV seems to be a massive commercial success, and I don't think the few character designs that got recycled is the reason why. I understand that they were in a rough spot at the time, but it's still a bit iffy of a move to make.
With FFXV in the state it is I can only see two conclusions : either they couldn't write themselves out of the remnants of Nomura's project (and again, seeing the result, they had little remorse throwing things to the trashcan), or they couldn't write a good story at all.
(To be clear, I'm not a Versus XIII evangelist at all.)
If Versus XIII never went further than pre production, it didn't cost them much.
sadaiyappan
Member
PC release?
I think where they got stuck is the game Tabata wanted to make (a hamlet inspired buddy coming of age road trip) and Versus 13 (Romeo +Juliet in the Yakuza with a twist on the final act) are actually very similar to eachother and there is enough congruance that there is no reason why both couldnt be combined into one brilliant coherent work.
Square just didnt stick the landing. Although they got pretty close. (They made Romeo when it needed to be Hamlet + Juliet)
Yikes.
Probably this. Tabata has already contradicted himself when trying to justify some of the bad writing ('It takes place from Noctis's POV - that's why so much happens offscreen!!!' - several random scenes take place without Nocis), and all of his games have had pretty abysmal stories.
They're either not a priority for him, or he's just really awful at implementing and presenting them.
Muffdraul
Member
It would have been "They changed Stella's story arc" versus
(no pun intended)
Didn't know about that Tabata part of the game. Though I wouldn't say they got pretty close, and I'd argue that deciding to have an open world for a road trip story was maybe the stupidest idea they could have went with.
Aw c'mon, I'm not dissing writers out there, but it's like saying "the game is coming along nicely. There's no gameplay yet but we already have a 5 CD soundtrack!"
Lunafreya Nox Fleuret
Member
That was the shittiest response to the Luna/Stella situation I have ever seen.
The Hamlet part is purely my interpretation. No one at Square has mentioned it. (Unlike the Versus 13 trailers which essentially recreate a scene from Baz Lurhmans Romeo + Juliet Shot for Shot)
However thematically it makes a lot of sense. Both feature a prince
with a dead father, an Invaded Kingdom and having to fight an Uncle type figure to reclaim their throne. Both also feature the main character coming of age and to accept their responsibilites surrounded by their friends.(Rosenkrantz and Guildenstein??? I forget the spelling. Whoever Timon and Pumba are meant to represent in the lionking)
DarkLordMalik
Member
How do I glitch bae Noctis in the real world?
Not to mention they were getting failures with some of their console projects like Hitman and Rise of Tomb Raider. FFXV was the one that easily met their expectations while also hitting their fiscal target.
The Hamburglar
Banned
This game is one of the worst ff to date. God the years of waiting for this. I have no hope for future ff.
ChackanKun
Member
Thank god for those changes.
The FF franchise was in need of an extreme makeover, and they did a hell of a good one with XV.
If they kept going with the tradicional formula FFXV would suck.
Despite having its haters, as usual, FFXV is a damn good game. Prolly the only good main FF I played since FFX (not counting with Crisis Core, since it isnt exactly main).
The FF franchise was in need of an extreme makeover, and they did a hell of a good one with XV.
If they kept going with the tradicional formula FFXV would suck.
Despite having its haters, as usual, FFXV is a damn good game. Prolly the only good main FF I played since FFX (not counting with Crisis Core, since it isnt exactly main).
Then you need to start reading or something, it was at no point hard to figure out what was going on if you payed even the slighest attention.
We did saw him in the anime though.
Yeah. The game is built around the trends of the market, that why the game sold so well . XV never had a vision to go with.
vainglorious
Member
Yeah ok buddy. Let me count the ways for you.
Since everyone's on this Stella vs Luna kick lets fucking talk about Luna. So one of the main plot threads involves Noctis traveling to Altissia to see Luna. He's going to see Luna because he has to/wants to marry her (even though it's apparently an arranged marriage by Niflheim) but it's also because she's some kind of Oracle who has to be with the "True King" in order to save the world from... stuff. And literally the only elaboration that the game gives you on the matter is that it's "their destiny".
And this is all in the context of Noctis leaving Lucis to travel to Altissia when apparently Luna has left Lucis after its invasion and is... also traveling to Altissia? But they never meet up, or speak with each other despite cell phone technology, or mention that what Luna does is apparently super distressing and draining the life out of her for... reasons. The only way they communicate is through Luna's magic dog, who passes a journal between them every few days in which they apparently only give each other one line sentences like "I received your blessing!" "God be with you!"
And people wonder why no one gave a shit about Luna when she died?
And that's on top of meeting Iris who is apparently super chipper after her home gets blown the fuck up and seems to be far more concerned with getting into Noctis' pants. Collecting magic weapons from some tombs because Cor "the Immortal" bad ass tells you to, who apparently finds his time better spent monster hunting instead of accompanying Noctis for... reasons. Oh wait! Let's infiltrate an imperial base to save the car! Because that's important. And after every major cutscene or event the game seems to have this habit of fading to black and going, "Several days later..." One of the reasons Ardyn falls flat for me as a villain is that instead of allowing interesting interactions to happen between him and the cast the game instead chooses to skip past anything meaningful. Ardyn rescues Noctis after the Titan battle, introduces himself as the Chancellor of a nation that just murdered Noctis' father and destroyed his home, and then the screen fades to black and Noctis and co are back out on the field racing Chocobos and happily doing fetch quests.
The game is incoherent nonsense. And it doesn't even care that it is.
potatohead
Member
Cool he's fucking nuts.
Zantetsuken
Member
I still wanted the old Regis design.
Dangansona
Member
Is the truth that funny to you?
LouisaFerre
Member
I mean, Tabata did ship something, but there were things shown off pretty damn late in development that ended up being cut from the game. It's kind of obvious that even after all the compromises that were made as Tabata took over, the team still wasn't able to implement a lot of the stuff they planned to. I don't think it's that unfair to say the game is incomplete. You don't have to compare it to Versus or Nomura's promises to think so, at all.
Exactly. Changing the name was never going to stop people from comparing Stella and Luna, it just made people more likely to hate Luna. "We didn't want to offend Stella fans, so we erased her entirely instead of asking fans to just understand that she's different now. Please be excited for this replacement who is also blonde and has the same last name, but is a much superior, stronger character than Stella ever was." LOL
I'm sure things changed for most of the characters. Even Noctis probably underwent some changes besides his clothing, but they didn't change his name and repeatedly beat us over the head with how much better he is than OG Noctis.
TheKastorian
Member
Loved the game and even though it's far from perfect I appreciate Tabata coming along and saving the project. Can't imagine how much pressure he might have had, a whole franchise was on his shoulders.
That's what I meant by disjointed. The story was terribly written whenever it came to time or location transitions. The end of Chapter 5 is indeed the worst offender. I hope one of the new cs they are doing is a scene between Noctis and bros with Ardyn on the ship.
Okay, my turn. Spoiler warning.
Luna's job as oracle is pretty clear. She can communicate with the Gods and she can call on the Gods to cure peoples ailments. She needs to awaken the Gods so that Noctis can recieve their blessing to become more powerful as he is the chosen king who is destined to destroy the starscourge. Noctis kinda likes Luna even if it is an arranged marriage so he does want to go meet her. He also needs her help to do her job (by the time he makes it to Altissia he only has two blessings) However as is established, Lunas job is really draining and every God she awakens makes her weaker. This seems to be a major reason Ravus wants to stop the whole thing with Leviathan going through, so that Luna doesnt end up killing herself to help someone he doesn't feel is worth it or good enough to carry out his destiny (Noctis).
Tha marriage is arranged by Niflheim at Ardyns request, to help Noctis to get the Gods power. Noctis can only reach full power with the help of the oracle and Ardyn only wants to fight Noctis once he has reached this point in order to prove that he should have been the choosen king. Noctis is sent out of Insomnia to keep him safe as the Regus knows the treaty signing is a trap and needs to keep Noctis alive (Choosen one and all). Luna isn't meant to be in Insomnia but the empire bring her in to use as a distraction to help with their invasion. She leaves Insomnia after the invasion so her journey would differ from Noctis'. (See kingsglaive).
Why they communicate in one line journal entries idk, best I can come up with is phones are mainly a thing in Insomnia and Luna doesn't have one with her. They could not be a thing in Tenebrae.
Cor leaves Noctis and crew to help people. Daemons are becoming more and more widespread and they are really understaffed. The empire isn't exactly gonna help and the Kingsglaive was wiped out in the invasion. Once again you have to collect the weapons to power up and become powerful enough to destroy the starscourge. (All the weapons stab into him on the throne) One of the reasons this is kinda unclear at times is while Cor, Luna and Regis know what Noctis has to do, Noctis is kept in the dark. You have to save the car in order to continue your journey, because in case you didnt notice there isn't great public transport available. Also serves the second purpose of being an oppurtunity to take out an empirial base, you are figthing the empire after all.
The game does fade to black a bit too much, but it isn't like you are missing things. The one example you choose is the only one i can think of where I could see an extra scene or two being helpful to the plot. Do you want to see them licking their wounds for weeks after Altissia? Ardyn also interacts with Noctis plenty more from Chapter 9 onwards, and this comes with a much darker tone. And people hated it.
Edit : Games don't need to show everything, especially not when they focus so heavily on one character. Would Hamlet be better if we had a scene for Rozencrantz and Guildernsterns deaths. Or for Laertes deciding to return to Denmark. Or of Ophelia dying?
Joei
Member
Once I finish the game, currently doing post-game content, I'd love to replay this on NG+ after all the new stuff is added, just play through the game not doing any hunts and stay focused on the story.
EDIT - reason being that I focused so much on side content and the story was so minimal in exposition, that I had no clue what was going on through most of it, but part of that is cause I was at like 70 hours during chapter 3 or 4 doing hunts and watching the god-damn loading screen.
This was a similar compliant I had about FFXII: way too much rewarding side content that can distract you from the main storyline for hours. It's so easy to forget major plot points, let alone small details.
https://emerentis.tumblr.com/post/156325121534/so-if-anyone-else-wants-to-do-the-older-party-in
If you do the glitch on 1.00 then update the game, you'll get beardless older Noct.
Man, Punished Noctis would've been such a great main character design for a FF game. I hope the next FF has more adult main characters like this or Bash.https://emerentis.tumblr.com/post/156325121534/so-if-anyone-else-wants-to-do-the-older-party-in
If you do the glitch on 1.00 then update the game, you'll get beardless older Noct.
DarkLordMalik
Member
Looks like a headache. I will just hope and pray they release skins later down the linehttps://emerentis.tumblr.com/post/156325121534/so-if-anyone-else-wants-to-do-the-older-party-in
If you do the glitch on 1.00 then update the game, you'll get beardless older Noct.
"truth" lololololololololololilililoik