Support NeoGAF

[reinking]

What is the FTC going to mandate?
None of the console manufacturers offer USB file backups and they can't force them to offer something for free that costs them money either. Sony just really needs to figure out how to make transfers more seemless. Make it so you can do partial restores better without having to wipe the system. Even if it's just a wired connection from one PS5 to the other like Switch does. There is no reason why that is not possible.

We know there is a possible solution to this but Sony is not going to fix it because people like me will still subscribe for that one feature alone. It is an anti-consumer feature and forces customers into a subscription plan for a basic feature of a game. I would think there is something there that could be looked into. If not, I would not expect it to change unless Sony suddenly starts losing sales/subscribers because of it. In the current state, they are gaining subscribers because of it.

 

[Gaiff]

No, it's impossible to edit cloud saves.

Not the editing part. I meant it’s possible to earn trophies by saving progress and reloading in instances where there are auto saves and you have to make choices. Or is that not trophy boosting?

 

[Topher]

How is it 99.9% when most people will never try to copy there game save to another Console that's not their new main console while not being a PS+ subscriber?

Also there is Remote Play if it absolutely has to be your own saved progression that you use while playing on someone else's PlayStation.

I don't think most folks are going to want to remote play from one to another of the same kind, in the same home. Doesn't really address the problem.

 

[wvnative]

Saves are encrypted, although if you manage to get a console/user-specific decryption key then all bets are off.
Honestly, the 99.9% have to suffer for the vast minority of hackers who manage to do this. Sony should allow for USB transfers.

On PS4 saves would eventually be decrypted. This way users can't even attempt it lest they hack the console, which as far as I know hasn't happened on PS5 yet, at least not while connected to PSN.

For the record I don't agree with it at all. All of this security stuff just ruins everything for legit users. I personally have suffered a great deal with Sony doing stuff like this.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I do agree that it is intentionally designed that way to get Trophy Whores to sign up for PS+.

Most if not all are signed up to it since they parse the “free” games to boost their scores.

Are you seriously trying to argue they’re buying all their games full stop? Nah lol

 

[Exede]

It's probably just greed for PS+ and blaming Save Wizards for it.

 

[Orbital2060]

I didnt mind so much when you could transfer saves to a USB stick.

Its the double whammy of being able to 1) delete your save data after 6 months and 2) make it so you cant transfer saves to an external device, that has made it into a genuine problem for consumers.

 

[onQ123]

I don't think most folks are going to want to remote play from one to another of the same kind, in the same home. Doesn't really address the problem.

But 99.9% of PS5 owners are not trying to move from PS5 to PS5 with the same save file.



Sidenote: My PS5 isn't even in the same room as the main TV that I game on because I found a really long optical HDMI cable at a bin store for $3 & I have a Portal / a few Tablets that I used to Remote Play on before Portal.

These things seem a lot more convenient than moving my save file from PS5 to PS5 with a USB . Cloud Storage can be done automatically so I can understand that but someone moving their save file from console to console seems like a mistake waiting to happen because if you make progress on the second PS5 you're gonna have to make sure to move it back to the 1st PS5 .

 

[Topher]

Good for you - Ive experienced losing a bunch of saves back in 2013-2014. My Persona 5 save, among others. And I havent resubbed since then.

Good for everyone since it is obviously a problem they have addressed.

I didnt mind so much when you could transfer saves to an USB stick.

Its the double whammy of being able to 1) delete your save data after 6 months

Huh? Is that the same "6 month" deletion we were just talking about that isn't an issue any longer?

 

[GHG]

If Sony are worried about transfered saves via USB being hacked and leading to some kind of system vulnerability then the system isn't that secure to begin with.

If they are worried about the save files being tampered for the purposes of cheating then they could implement some kind of save verification system which would prevent that.

There's no excuse here and the reason they are doing it is becuase they want people to subscribe to PS+.

 

[Synastry]

I doubt Sony really cares that much about a few thousand people using game genies. It's more likely that they want to get people to sub to PS+ for cloud storage.

I disagree Sony was releasing updates for the PS4 to try and stop SW and its why now you cant upload saves to a USB drive.

 

[GHG]

Or the competition makes paid online the norm. They all got their vices that the consumers are wiling to bear. We only have ourselves as a gaming collective to blame.

From paid online components, DLC, to near $2,000 graphics cards.

Thank you sir, may I have another. Thank you sir, may I have another.

Yep, it's more a symptom of bad competition.

Very few know the difference.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Are you seriously trying to argue they’re buying all their games full stop? Nah lol

No I mean the inability to Save Scum without PS+ is intentional.

 

[t_wilson01]

I'm backing my save files up to a USB right now but haven't got to the restore part yet to see what happens

Over 9 gigs just for game saves data is just insane to me. Is part of the actual game being saved as well?

 

[Topher]

No I mean the inability to Save Scum without PS+ is intentional.

People without PS+ can save their game just as much as people with PS+.

 

[onQ123]

Over 9 gigs just for game saves data is just insane to me. Is part of the actual game being saved as well?

It's also the PS5 settings & so on.

 

[Orbital2060]

Huh? Is that the same "6 month" deletion we were just talking about that isn't an issue any longer?

And I told you Ive had it happen once. Its been a while, so maybe theyve silently changed it. It used to be a thing.

Its not enough for me trust the system, though - if its related to how active you are while not being subbed, or something. I need to know if I can walk away for 5 years, come back and its all there.

 

[Topher]

And I told you Ive had it happen once. Its been a while, so maybe theyve silently changed it. It used to be a thing.

Its not enough for me trust the system, though - if its related to how active you are while not being subbed, or something. I need to know if I can walk away for 5 years, come back and its all there.

You don't have to trust it, but you shouldn't be repeating it as if it were actually the case 10+ years later, especially when two of us in this thread have already said it isn't from first hand recent experience.

And all of this data should have an expiration date at some point for inactive users. Otherwise, current subscribers will be paying for the storage costs incurred by these companies years after the fact.

 

[AmuroChan]

I disagree Sony was releasing updates for the PS4 to try and stop SW and its why now you cant upload saves to a USB drive.

Yes, I'm not saying they don't care at all. Forcing people to sub to PS+ for cloud storage equates to tens of millions of dollars in additional revenue. Money is always going to be the #1 driving factor. Yes, I'm sure Sony wishes game genie type devices don't exist, but it's such a smaller variable compared to adding millions of additional PS+ subs.

Also, if your assessment is correct, they would've taken away the ability to upload PS4 saves to USB drive also. Why have that restriction just be for PS5? And they can easily address the issue without taking away the ability to backup save files to USB. If a save file has been updated by a 3rd party application and not by a PlayStation device, Sony can surely detect that and just ban your PSN account. That will essentially eliminate 99% of that problem and the 1% that remain will be those who jailbreak their PlayStations and never connect online.

 

[Pipoqueiro]

I am Brazilian and live in Brazil. When I bought the PS3, there was no PlayStation Plus available here, so I platinumed several games on the American PSN. It wasn’t an issue—I would keep PlayStation Plus on a Brazilian account when it was released here and play on the American one. That worked until the PS5 was launched and cloud saves became mandatory. Sony never gave me the opportunity to change my account's region.

 

[DeepEnigma]

No I mean the inability to Save Scum without PS+ is intentional.

The hardcore trophy hunters have plus to begin with. Nothing to do with save scumming. Just a shit decision (for the consumer) all around that should be let out of the paywall, like they have had for F2P games since day 0 each gen.

Something MS never had until they were getting pummeled. Competition needs to step their game up and force hands.

 

[Orbital2060]

You don't have to trust it, but you shouldn't be repeating it as actually being the case 10+ years later, especially when two of us in this thread have already said it isn't from first hand recent experience.

And all of this data should have an expiration date at some point for inactive users. Otherwise, current subscribers will be paying for the storage costs incurred by these companies years after the fact.

Its still a problem with trust, if Sony indeed has silently changed their policy on expiry of saved data. Because they havent admitted to or informed anyone about making the change, so they might as well change it back to deleting 6 month+ old saves again. If you havent admitted to anything, you havent done anything - right? So excuse me for not trusting them at this point, unless there is some kind of official statement on it somewhere. Im damned sure I read the fine print on the 6 month period expiry on their support pages back then. It was a thing, and Im not taking out of the blue. Its good if they have changed it, awesome.

As for your second point, I 100 % disagree and there should absolutely not be any expiry date on accounts or saved games when you are dealing with platform holders like Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, Apple or MMOs and GAAS games like World of Warcraft, Fortnite and Call of Duty. I couldnt disagree more I walked away from Xbox for 6 years or so 2010 - 2016 because I was bored with the whole HD console gaming scene, and focused all of my gaming around PC and Nintendo for that time. PlayStation as well, I kept my PS3 for a while but sold it some time after the X360 because I was bored with the PS scene as well after being a huge Sony fan from basically all of PS1 and PS2 era. Then I saw Forza Horizon 3 run on a console in a shop in 2016 or 2017, and couldnt resist getting a HD console again, and bought a bundle with the game and an Xbox One. And all of my purchases and saved games were still there, 6-7 years later without having been online with an xbox at all. As it should be, but it was still awesome to see that everything was indeed there after not having had anything to do with an xbox for so long. Same thing with World of Warcraft - I resubbed earlier this year for the first time in almost 10 years - and every little thing was there, in addition to all of the levelling boosts they have given out on battle net over the years. As it should be, when you have paid so much for the services and games and put years of your life into their games and services.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Its horrifying seeing people in this thread trying to justify this.

 

[GHG]

As for your second point, I 100 % disagree and there should absolutely not be any expiry date on accounts or saved games when you are dealing with platform holders like Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, Apple or MMOs and GAAS games like World of Warcraft, Fortnite and Call of Duty. I couldnt disagree more

Those games aren't saved locally though, so what are you waffling on about?

 

[Topher]

Its still a problem with trust, if Sony indeed has silently changed their policy on expiry of saved data. Because they havent admitted to or informed anyone about making the change, so they might as well change it back to deleting 6 month+ old saves again. If you havent admitted to anything, you havent done anything - right? So excuse me for not trusting them at this point, unless there is some kind of official statement on it somewhere. Im damned sure I read the fine print on the 6 month period expiry on their support pages back then. It was a thing, and Im not taking out of the blue. Its good if they have changed it, awesome.

As far as I know there has never been a publicly stated policy on expiration of game saves expiring. What I do know is that this 6 month narrative you are pushing is false as of September 2024 when I renewed after one and a half years. If that changes then I'm sure there will be a thread about it.

As for the rest, I'm not talking about licenses or accounts. The subject here is game saves. So you wrote all that to disagree with me about shit I didn't even say.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Its horrifying seeing people in this thread trying to justify this.

Who’s doing that? Countering misinformation, yes, but I see the majority saying it shouldn’t be behind a paywall.

 

[sendit]

Same wtf moment i had when transferring data over to the PS5Pro.

 

[Orbital2060]

Those games aren't saved locally though, so what are you waffling on about?

As for the rest, I'm not talking about licenses or accounts. The subject here is game saves. So you wrote all that to disagree with me about shit I didn't even say.

I included that in my post, but you jumped right to the MMO and GAAS part.

platform holders like Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, Apple

Game saves for the games on their platforms should absolutely not have an expiry date, if you choose to unsub.

 

[Topher]

Game saves for the games on their platforms should absolutely not have an expiry date, if you choose to unsub.

I'll put this another way. Cloud saves on Xbox are free right now. If it was a matter of deleting game saves from accounts that have been dormant for 10+ years vs Microsoft charging for space in the future, what would you choose? Yeah....preference would be neither, but I doubt that is going to be the case indefinitely.

 

[Orbital2060]

I'll put this another way. Cloud saves on Xbox are free right now. If it was a matter of deleting game saves from accounts that have been dormant for 10+ years vs Microsoft charging for space in the future, what would you choose? Yeah....preference would be neither, but I doubt that is going to be the case indefinitely.

Im just assuming they must have thought about this, since theyre not allowing transfers to USBs there either. If they ever start charging for storing your saves, maybe they can make it so you can do a one time download of everything if you dont want to start paying. To an SSD. With a heads up time of a year or so before they start deleting saves.

 

[Topher]

Im just assuming they must have thought about this, since theyre not allowing transfers to USBs there either. If they ever start charging for storing your saves, maybe they can make it so you can do a one time download of everything if you dont want to start paying. To an SSD. With a heads up time of a year or so before they start deleting saves.

Would be good to have an option like that. I work with cloud apps and I see a lot of the costs in Azure. Ain't cheap. Hopefully you are right and they have thought this through this long term.

 

[bender]

Starting a new save file is almost like staring a new game so in essence, Sony is giving you free games with this policy

 

[GHG]

I included that in my post, but you jumped right to the MMO and GAAS part.

It makes no sense though considering the fact that game saves for GAAS games reside on the servers maintained by the games themselves (Fortnite etc) rather than with any particular platform holder.

For GAAS games this whole thing is inconsequential.

Game saves for the games on their platforms should absolutely not have an expiry date, if you choose to unsub.

Cloud game saves should be free on all platforms, full stop.

That's what would prevent this discussion from even materialising.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

The hardcore trophy hunters have plus to begin with. Nothing to do with save scumming.

Then why are Trophy Whores so up in arms about it? You can still backup if you're worried the drive will die. SSDs do have a write limit but I'm not sure you would hit it. They should be way more reliable than the Platter drives.

 

[reinking]

Maybe they looked back at all of the $$ they lost selling memory cards and this was the answer.

 

[ManaByte]

I'll put this another way. Cloud saves on Xbox are free right now. If it was a matter of deleting game saves from accounts that have been dormant for 10+ years vs Microsoft charging for space in the future, what would you choose? Yeah....preference would be neither, but I doubt that is going to be the case indefinitely.

If you backed up your Xbox 360 saves to the cloud 15 years ago, bought a XSX, and then downloaded a BC game you had saves for: the saves are still there. They don’t get deleted.

 

[Topher]

If you backed up your Xbox 360 saves to the cloud 15 years ago, bought a XSX, and then downloaded a BC game you had saves for: the saves are still there. They don’t get deleted.

You missed the point

 

[AmuroChan]

Then why are Trophy Whores so up in arms about it? You can still backup if you're worried the drive will die. SSDs do have a write limit but I'm not sure you would hit it. They should be way more reliable than the Platter drives.

That's very interesting. I've been a trophy hunter for over 10 years and I just googled what save scumming even meant.

 

[CJ_75]

Yeah, and I seriously question why.

People modified PS4 gamesaves giving them extra health, ammo, infinite money, etc.
That sucks if you play online games or adding trophies to your account while you did not perform your best with the game.
Just Google for savegamewizard and you understand what I mean.

Sony wants you to play fair and I applaud them for the different approach with PS5 saves.

 

[Gaiff]

People modified PS4 gamesaves giving them extra health, ammo, infinite money, etc.
That sucks if you play online games or adding trophies to your account while you did not perform your best with the game.
Just Google for savegamewizard and you understand what I mean.

Sony wants you to play fair and I applaud them for the different approach with PS5 saves.

Then they should have given us some free cloud storage like Xbox and Steam do. Or is it perhaps because they saw an opportunity to charge us?

 

[DeepEnigma]

You missed the point

On purpose, for the Backhanded Advert™

 

[Topher]

On purpose, for the Backhanded Advert™

 

[DeepEnigma]

Listen, if you were that one person who fell into a coma in the 360 days, and the first thing you wanted to do after coming out of it this week was boot up Geometry Wars where you left off, RRoD be damned, by golly it's there!

We argue about the dumbest shit and most irrelevant shit sometimes

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Then they should have given us some free cloud storage like Xbox and Steam do. Or is it perhaps because they saw an opportunity to charge us?

The claim is USB saves allow cheating. And that can be true. But just give gamers cloud saves and that fixes the issue.

It's all a money thing because Sony does offer cloud saves only if you sub to a PS+ plan.

If you backed up your Xbox 360 saves to the cloud 15 years ago, bought a XSX, and then downloaded a BC game you had saves for: the saves are still there. They don’t get deleted.

Yup.

Played Skyrim over a decade, got a new Xbox, booted the game up and try it out at 60 fps and there were my saved files. I'm a save scummer so it was like "Oh ya, file save #400. lol"

 

[AmuroChan]

People modified PS4 gamesaves giving them extra health, ammo, infinite money, etc.
That sucks if you play online games or adding trophies to your account while you did not perform your best with the game.
Just Google for savegamewizard and you understand what I mean.

Sony wants you to play fair and I applaud them for the different approach with PS5 saves.

That's easily addressed without taking away the ability to backup data on USB. If a game save has been modified by a 3rd party application and not by a PlayStation device, Sony can absolutely detect that and just ban the PSN account. Problem solved. This is about money. By forcing people to sub to PS+ for cloud storage, this adds millions of dollars of additional revenue to Sony's coffers.

 

[CJ_75]

Then they should have given us some free cloud storage like Xbox and Steam do. Or is it perhaps because they saw an opportunity to charge us?

You don't get something for nothing. Leave the saves on the PS5 or get the cheapest PS plus, you get cloud storage, online multiplay, 1 free movie credit, monthly games. Whining is free, so please go ahead. Let it out.

 

[Gaiff]

You don't get something for nothing. Leave the saves on the PS5 or get the cheapest PS plus, you get cloud storage, online multiplay, 1 free movie credit, monthly games. Whining is free, so please go ahead. Let it out.

But they will happily take something away and give nothing back in return.


Just another bootlicker. Carry on.

 

[Nydius]

You don't get something for nothing.

Interesting because I get cloud saves on Steam and Xbox completely free, just for using their platforms. It’s only Sony and Nintendo that charge for them.

Interestingly, Sony and Nintendo used to offer online multiplayer completely free while Microsoft was the only one charging for it.

Now I get more free benefits from Microsoft than I do Sony or Nintendo. Wonder what changed?

 

[bender]

Wonder what changed?

Expectations

 

[Skyfox]

So if your console is stolen and you’ve no ps plus on your saves are gone.

There’s no way to backup your saves without signing up for a paid sub.

Fuck Sony