"Living" with the yields also means they are spending a lot more on production if they plan to meet demand. Another reason for your additional $100 price tag.
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Xbox One GPU Specs reveal date?
- Thread starter Xamdou
- Start date
"Living" with the yields also means they are spending a lot more on production if they plan to meet demand. Another reason for your additional $100 price tag.
Not damage control, just common sense. I'm predicting what will happen months prior with that post. If devs have been using PS4 dev kits with mainly 2.2gb, and only more recently 4gb (GDDR5) of ram, whilst the same devs have been using XO kits with 12gb (DDR3) ram for a very long time, obviously the expectation is that PS4 games will look better over time, as devs have more time with final dev kits which presumably will have 8GB GDDR5 or more (dev kits usually have extra as buffer).
Remember early on a few devs actually said the XO had the edge, but this was because it had far more ram than the PS4, which made up for, at the time, the slight performance difference. The situation today is very different. The PS4 is notably more powerful and has the same amount of ram, just much faster. But this is a very very recent change.
It might be hilarious but it's the truth.
http://kotaku.com/5977849/the-plays...ncy-user-accounts-and-impressive-specs-so-far
PS4 dev kits for a long while had only 2.2gb of GDDR5 video ram.
nelsonroyale
Member
5 billion transistors is probably my favourite released spec. Somebody managed to dredge up a number that came out on top and I salute her/him.
George Claw M.D.
Member
Yes. That was my thinking after seeing the low allocation numbers for the Xbone, but a lot of Gaffers have still been questioning whether the downclock rumors were true or not. Even someone else in this very thread asked Matt to confirm or deny the downclock rumors. There were no credible sources that corroborated the original rumor, but now Matt effectively denied it by confirming that the rumored specs are correct. So maybe people can stop asking now. That's my interpretation anyway, and Matt can speak up if I'm wrong.
What do you mean? Fact of the matter is, early on devs were making PS4 games to use only a maximum of 2.2gb of ram or less. They were not developing games to use the system ram which was a part of the dev kit, the system ram was purely to run the OS and tools. The difference is that now devs will be making PS4 games to use 8GB of ram. Not even sure the final dev kits have even been sent out mind.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
gddr5 is video/graphics ram.
Phinal Phantasy
Banned
Means nothing. Either the final kit can run 1080p 60 fps or it can't.
Who is Matt?
PS1 hardware could theoretically run a game at 1080p at 60fps. In-fact, any hardware could really. You'd just have to degrade the graphical quality and features respectively. 1080p and 60fps is not limited by hardware performance (barring the fact that older consoles didn't support 1080p). It is purely a design decision.
See Wipeout HD on PS3 which runs at 1080p/60fps.
Apart from the leaked documents, I read that the rumored clockspeeds hit the TDP sweetspot of Jaguar/GCN. Can't find the source, but it would make sense given that the same clockspeeds had been rumored for both XB180 and PS4.
Phinal Phantasy
Banned
I'm talking about multiplats. Battlefield 4 is going to be a pretty good indicator of things to come.
CurlySaysX
Banned
The Xbox one is officially 3x more powerful than the Xbox 360.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
The one does not have GPU, everything is run by the cloud 
amstradcpc
Member
http://www.vgleaks.com/orbis-devkits-roadmaptypes/
From January the Beta Kits are almost final and i supposse the only variable now is the final clock of the CPU ( I think some developers have hope of a final kit CPU clock increase ):
SoC Based Devkit
Available January 2013
CPU: 8-core Jaguar
GPU: Liverpool GPU
RAM: unified 8 GB for devkit (4 GB for the retail console)
Subsystem: HDD, Network Controller, BD Drive, Bluetooth Controller, WLAN and HDMI (up to 1980×1080@3D)
Analog Outputs: Audio, Composite Video
Connection to Host: USB 3.0 (targeting over 200 MB/s),
ORBIS Dualshock
Dual Camera
Ok, well multiplats have been running at 1080p/60hz on PC for years now with lower specs than the PS4. Are you seriously suggesting that it's actually less capable than the XBO just based on E3 alpha builds?
I don't think any of the launch titles are going to be good indicators really, though obviously they'll act as some sort of initial example. Best gauge is going to be second gen titles.
Phinal Phantasy
Banned
The one does not have GPU, everything is run by the cloud
ha ha ha
M_A_C
Member
The biggest mystery of this thread so far.
Not really. Dev kits usually have extra ram over the retail unit to allow for debugging and other development advantages (you can't max out the consoles optimal ram use without it). Final dev kits afaik have not been sent out yet. They will likely have more than 8GB of GDDR5 ram in them.
amstradcpc
Member
Not always. If i remember correctly X360 final kits had also 512MB of RAM ( the console only had 256MB until near the launch ) and it was like that for a long time. If i am correct if you want a devkit with more than 8GB of RAM you have to redesign the APU to modify the mem controller.
You can use something like Crysis 3 as a very rough basis for comparison between the two console GPUs. For multiplats, at least.
7770
1.28 TFLOPS (XB1 - 1.24 TF)
16 ROPS (XB1 - 16 ROPS)
1GB @ 72 GB/s (XB1 - 5GB @ 67 GB/s)
7850
1.76 TFLOPS (PS4 - 1.84 TF)
32 ROPS (PS4 - 32 ROPS)
2 GB @ 154 GB/s (PS4 - 7GB [?] @ 176 GB/s)
7770
1.28 TFLOPS (XB1 - 1.24 TF)
16 ROPS (XB1 - 16 ROPS)
1GB @ 72 GB/s (XB1 - 5GB @ 67 GB/s)
7850
1.76 TFLOPS (PS4 - 1.84 TF)
32 ROPS (PS4 - 32 ROPS)
2 GB @ 154 GB/s (PS4 - 7GB [?] @ 176 GB/s)
amstradcpc
Member
You can use something like Crysis 3 as a rough basis for comparison between the two console GPUs. For multiplats, at least.
7770
1.28 TFLOPS (XB1 - 1.24 TF)
16 ROPS (XB1 - 16 ROPS)
1GB @ 72 GB/s (XB1 - 5GB @ 67 GB/s)
7850
1.76 TFLOPS (PS4 - 1.84 TF)
32 ROPS (PS4 - 32 ROPS)
2 GB @ 154 GB/s (PS4 - 7GB [?] @ 176 GB/s)
Those pics look worse than TLOU.
Why not? The hardware differences between those 2 GPUs are almost a perfect match with the XB1 and PS4.
pslayer666
Member
I don't know about the CPU specs, but the Xbox One has a crapload of transistors inside it. Like billions!!!!!
It should be really good
It should be really good
[/sarcasm]
Except that's quite a drop in video RAM on those PC's.
Split among system, sound and graphics uses sure. Only 3GB is being used exclusively for graphics.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-inside-killzone-shadow-fall
So basically, they can double it and still have that extra 2GB left for system uses.
So the differences between the XB1 and PS4 are smaller than that?
No but showing two pictures, neither of them representative of the graphics we will actually see, doesn't really tell us anything. Yeah, I see a difference in those pictures from each other, but are you suggesting that's what we will actually see in difference and that those pics represent what we can actually expect?
Split among system, sound and graphics uses sure. Only 3GB is being used exclusively for graphics.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-inside-killzone-shadow-fall
So basically, they can double it and still have that extra 2GB left for system uses.
And why should I stop claiming the aforementioned? The SoC based dev kits were only sent out in January 2013. That means up until that point devs were only working with the 2.2GB dev kit version. Assuming KZ SF started development after KZ3 (Feb 2011), we can assume that GG were using a dev kit based on 2.2GB of ram for at least 2 years (till the new dev kits were sent out in Jan 2013).
http://www.vgleaks.com/orbis-devkits-roadmaptypes/
That's fair enough, and you obviously know more about it than I do. I've edited the post.
Aren't ACEs related to GPU compute?
flying dutchman
Neo Member
MS previously put out strong specs on the xbox and 360 but decided that wii showed this wasnt needed to sell consoles. While the PS3 had a more powerful CPU than the 360, the 360 was actually a very powerful piece of kit when it was released. This gen not so much. While I never was a PS guy I did appreciate Sony trying to push the specs for their hardware. It was good for the industry.
so much MS did this time around has dissapointed me to the point where I am going sony this gen for the first time.
so much MS did this time around has dissapointed me to the point where I am going sony this gen for the first time.
Monty Mole
Member
Out of interest, what are DMEs? And what is the advantage of two pipelines?
pslayer666
Member
And it has a 1,5Mbit broadband-connection CPU/GPU.
Hahahahahahaha..... oh lord..... you're killing me!
amstradcpc
Member
To be fair the 2 graphics pipelines are only for smooth OS pop outs...
MWS Natural
Member
Hmm....that's not very noticable at all. Only the system warz crew will fight over these details, the average Joe won't even notice a difference.
amstradcpc
Member
IMHO the best characteristic you shoul have pointed out is the onion + bus that allows bypassing the GPU caches. That will show the compute magic!.
People seem to overlook this for some reason. Cerny went on at length about the machine's GPGPU capabilities and the specific modifications they made to maximize that. The benefits of GPU assisted processing in gaming are pretty substantial, and you can expect any developer worth their salt to take advantage of this. It'll be this that'll give us the noticeable elevation of 2nd gen+ games above those that came before. You get pretty cool path finding possibilities with this, for instance.
This also applies to the One and Wii U, but to a lesser extent.
specialguy
Banned
They probably wont reveal the specs. If they are as rumored, they would look inferior. But if they say 8GB RAM 8 core CPU, they dont look inferior.
Anyways the games looked awesome at E3, so I wouldn't worry.
I've heard rumblings these architectures dont get much gain from using more than 14 CU's on gfx anyway (this is where 14+4 split vgleaks rumor started, from Sony developer suggestions/slides to use a 14/4 gfx/compute split as more than 14 CU's on GFX granted little return). So maybe 12-14CU's is the sweet spot anyway.
It wasn't said what's limiting them, it has to be CPU or bandwidth, my guess is the CPU. 1.6 ghz is kinda slow, even with 6.
Also, the esram can be an advantage.
If MS successfully convinces people "this black box's shadowy innards are ~equivalent to that other black box's shadowy innards, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" they've done their job. So far it's working imo. Joe Blow isn't going to see a difference based on E3. But we'll see in the future.
baphomet
Member
It also isn't representative of anything about the difference in power of next gen consoles.
Of course when you take into consideration that a significant portion of the XBone's power might be reserved for the os, you may actually be able to say that the XBone gpu is 50% weaker, (for games).
M_A_C
Member
How big of a deal is that sSRAM anyways? Do we know yet?
specialguy
Banned
You're neglecting the ESRAM in the bandwidth comparison which is patently ridiculous (you better believe MS didn't spend 1.6 billion transistors on it to do nothing).
But other than that, cool comparison and pic, and i agree 7850/7770 on paper (but I will say it's impossible to say at this stage how actual results will fair)
dead monkey uk
Member
Has the 1.6 ghz number been confirmed for both consoles? I remember talk of the PS4 at least being 1.8+
There are still a lot of unknowns about the consoles specs, that I feel will not become clear until after release. For example, has the xbox been down clocked and how much resources do the 3 OS's take.
On the PS4 side there has been talk of the OS using between 0.5 - 2GB RAM, also the final CPU speed.
I think both consoles will have amazing looking games, with most third party games being exactly the same. It is going to be interesting to see if Sony can make the extra power show in their first party games in the next couple of years. Naughty Dog its over to you.