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[Desprado123]

AMD is sidelining its RX 6xxx series and 7xxx series due to FSR 4 being only supported on the RX 9xxx series while DLSS 4 is supported on RTX gens.

After this, I don't think developers will give a damn about even testing its game on the RX 6xxx series or RX 7xxx series while even the RTX 2080 Ti feels like an epic value, where features are updated and upgraded.

IMO, AMD is destroying their ecosystem in the GPU market and signaling that you should use Nvidia if you are looking to use a GPU for 5 to 7 years.

I never imagined that Nvidia would beat AMD in terms of feature value.

 

[MH3M3D]

Its probably because the 6000 series doesnt have AI cores and the 7000 an older version.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

AMD owners discover that new features require new hardware

 

[SolidQ]

Its probably because the 6000 series doesnt have AI cores and the 7000 an older version.

from jack interview
The comments came as Huynh was talking about handheld gaming and battery life, but based on AMD's history of open-source, architecture-agnostic algorithms, FSR4 should be for more than just handhelds. We've edited and cleaned up the text from our recording, and here's what was said.

Jack Huynh: On the handheld side, my number one priority is battery life. If you look at the ASUS ROG Ally or the Lenovo Legion Go, it’s just that the battery life is not there. I need multiple hours. I need to play a Wukong for three hours, not 60 minutes. This is where frame generation and interpolation [come in], so this is the FSR4 that we're adding.

Handhels and APU is RDNA 3.5. It's just marketing about 9xxx series
They writing it because RDNA4 have exclusive Kernel

 

[winjer]

Its probably because the 6000 series doesnt have AI cores and the 7000 an older version.

But even XeSS has a path for XMX cores and another for DP4A.
If AMD really is making FSR4 exclusive to RDNA4, its going to be a kick in the balls for current AMD users.

 

[SolidQ]

If AMD really is making FSR4 exclusive to RDNA4, its going to be a kick in the balls for current AMD users.

read above post

 

[G-DannY]

I never imagined that Nvidia would beat AMD in terms of feature value.

but... but... that's been the whole point since DLSS existed

 

[Sunkrest]

I have 7900 XT and I feel a little sidelined. Intel could do it with XeSS but AMD can't with FSR4? When I was buying the card AMD GPUs were all about open source, 'fine wine' etc. I was hoping the FSR technology will only mature and I'm not going to be left behind so suddenly, one generation later. AMD by their actions earned certain high standard, that was very attractive to me, and they suddenly decided to abandon it.

That being said, I'm happy with my 20gb of vram. While FSR3 is not perfect it's fine on my 4k TV. It's worse on 1440p monitor but, for now, everything runs fine native on this resolution. I'm satisfied with the product.

I have to say though, when I'm seeing all the people cheering for FSR4 exclusivity, all I can think about is people that would NEVER buy AMD GPU anyway and all they want is to Radeon to just follow Nvidia's footsteps so NV products won't get too expensive and complacent. No one cares for the current users

 

[Unknown Soldier]

But even XeSS has a path for XMX cores and another for DP4A.
If AMD really is making FSR4 exclusive to RDNA4, its going to be a kick in the balls for current AMD users.

What current AMD users? Their market share is at an all-time low. They are right to prioritize new features because Nvidia just announced like 17 new features, they are falling further and further behind every single day. If they have to make new features require new hardware then so be it. They have nothing left to lose, they will soon be at zero market share at the pace Nvidia is moving

 

[spons]

AMD has about 2 pros for gaming I can name, and that's rasterization performance per buck and proper FOSS drivers.
It also took them 20 years but their video encoding engine caught up with NVENC.... but only in AV1.

 

[Desprado123]

What current AMD users? Their market share is at an all-time low. They are right to prioritize new features because Nvidia just announced like 17 new features, they are falling further and further behind every single day. If they have to make new features require new hardware then so be it. They have nothing left to lose, they will soon be at zero market share at the pace Nvidia is moving

They are very late—almost 7 years—misread the market, bet on the wrong features, and had the wrong strategy, making people believe that ML is not required for super sampling, then ditching those

people who trusted AMD word. This is more unethical from AMD's side than any tech company. They are indirectly making RX 6xxx and RX 7xxx users the new GTX 1080 Ti users; however,

GTX 10xx series users knew why Nvidia had exclusive features like DLSS on RTX 2xxx when it was launched and how AMD will explain that they missed 7 years and now they want to go in an ML approach, making RX 6xxx and RX 7xxx customers.

wasting their money on AMD products.

 

[FireFly]

people who trusted AMD word. This is more unethical from AMD's side than any tech company. They are indirectly making RX 6xxx and RX 7xxx users the new GTX 1080 Ti users; however,

GTX 10xx series users knew why Nvidia had exclusive features like DLSS on RTX 2xxx when it was launched and how AMD will explain that they missed 7 years and now they want to go in an ML approach, making RX 6xxx and RX 7xxx customers.

wasting their money on AMD products.

Where did AMD promise that ML based upscaling was coming on RDNA 2/3?

 

[Desprado123]

Where did AMD promise that ML based upscaling was coming on RDNA 2/3?

That is the whole point. That is why AMD is never able to build an ecosystem and the same approach as MS.

Sony's business model is the same as Nvidia's, and the prime focus is to build an ecosystem and to back something that will be supported for a decade or longer.

A GPU is not just raw performance or driver updates; it is about features. When you give half-baked features and do not want to back long-term, then why and

who will buy AMD products?

 

[Mister Wolf]

They wasted years just to turn around and do the same shit.

 

[AzekZero]

As an owner of an RDNA3 card, I've been expecting the worst.

I'm holding out hope the rumor of there being a second branch of FS4 for non-9000 series cards is true.

 

[FireFly]

That is the whole point. That is why AMD is never able to build an ecosystem and the same approach as MS.

Sony's business model is the same as Nvidia's, and the prime focus is to build an ecosystem and to back something that will be supported for a decade or longer.

A GPU is not just raw performance or driver updates; it is about features. When you give half-baked features and do not want to back long-term, then why and

who will buy AMD products?

Yes, so nothing has changed. Since 2018, AMD has had less features than Nvidia, and had to sell their products at a lower price to compensate. People buying those products knew they had less features, so either were happy saving money, or did not care about the difference in functionality.

Now you seem to be trying to pretend that AMD betrayed their users because they were really waiting all along for that DLSS killer that AMD never actually promised them, and was never priced into the product. If AMD had said "RDNA 2/3 may be lacking in features now, but eventually we will match Nvidia", it would be a different story. But people never bought the cards expecting an Nvidia-like ecosystem.

 

[Black_Stride]

I mean its good that the tech will "just work" with any game that already has FSR 3.1.......but locking it to the RX9000s is a real kick in the teeth for AMD fans.

Consider that Nvidia is gonna allow DLSS4 to work at a driver level, so devs dont even have to update anything we dont need to update anything. (cept the Nvidia App and Drivers) and you can just enable it.
How is AMD fumbling so bad?

 

[llien]

AMD owners discover that new features require new hardware

NV owners discovered a misleading title to b*tch about.

Not all of DLSS4 will run on "all RTX".
No confirmation FSR4 won't run on older cards either, the talk was about 2 versions of it, one utilizing hardware in the newest series.

 

[llien]

Nvidia is gonna allow DLSS4 to work at a driver level

Eh? DLSS4 is no longer a TAA derivative and does not need motion vectors?

 

[CompleteGlobalSaturation]

But even XeSS has a path for XMX cores and another for DP4A.
If AMD really is making FSR4 exclusive to RDNA4, its going to be a kick in the balls for current AMD users.

Good.

By keeping everything 'open' and 'backwards compatible', there is a reason why AMD is so far behind the curve.

It's time they added custom hardware for ML/AI upscaling.

 

[Wolzard]

I would wait for the official announcement. Anything before that is rumor or campaign material.

AMD announced FSR3 as something for the RX 7000, but in the end, it was supported by every GPU.

 

[llien]

What current AMD users? Their market share is at an all-time low.

No
At least on Steam, it had been 11.5% at some point.
It is 16.5% today.

Steam Hardware & Software Survey

I have 7900 XT and I feel a little sidelined.

Wait until ANYTHING gets confirmed. It is all rumors at this point.

AMD is so far behind the curve

AMD is not far behind the curve, unless your brains are regularly washed by PF.

 

[CompleteGlobalSaturation]

No
At least on Steam, it had been 11.5% at some point.
It is 16.5% today.

Steam Hardware & Software Survey

Wait until ANYTHING gets confirmed. It is all rumors at this point.


AMD is not far behind the curve, unless your brains are regularly washed by PF.

They are objectively behind the curve with FSR.

 

[llien]

They are objectively behind the curve with FSR.

They are objectively NOT FAR behind in temporal upscaling and have unique spatial solution that most Steam Deck users enjoy and which did not rock only in the review by PF. Review, in which the scheiss reviewer spent quite a bit of time to outright fake the results by corrupting image via messing with games internal settings. Hardly surprising from green shills.

Temporal FSR also supports much wider range of devices, quite a limiting factor.

 

[GHG]

AMD are so far behind that they had no choice but to start fresh with a new solution that requires new hardware.

Sucks for older gen card owners but it is what it is.

They are objectively NOT FAR behind in temporal upscaling and have unique spatial solution that most Steam Deck users enjoy and which did not rock only in the review by PF. Review, in which the scheiss reviewer spent quite a bit of time to outright fake the results by corrupting image via messing with games internal settings. Hardly surprising from green shills.

It looks like utter shit on the deck though (and other consoles).

The only people saying it looks good (or words to that effect) simply don't know any better.

 

[RoboFu]

Nah they will continue with fsr 3 as well. I don't think the op understands what fsr was compared to dlss.
Which is exactly why they needed to split off for fsr 4.

 

[CompleteGlobalSaturation]

They are objectively NOT FAR behind in temporal upscaling and have unique spatial solution that most Steam Deck users enjoy and which did not rock only in the review by PF. Review, in which the scheiss reviewer spent quite a bit of time to outright fake the results by corrupting image via messing with games internal settings. Hardly surprising from green shills.

Temporal FSR also supports much wider range of devices, quite a limiting factor.

Nope - FSR looks like garbage.

DLSS is the only upscaling solution I will ever consider. Looks as good as 4K Native when playing DLSS Balanced @ 4K. DLAA looks the best but I'm happy to sacrifice the best image for double the framerate.

 

[ripjoel]

Wait for Navi.

 

[Black_Stride]

Eh? DLSS4 is no longer a TAA derivative and does not need motion vectors?

No.
If a game supports DLSS then you can override whatever DLSS version the game shipped with to use the latest Transformer based implementation and can even inject DLAA on games that dont support it without riff raffing around.

to

 

[MarV0]

What current AMD users? Their market share is at an all-time low. They are right to prioritize new features because Nvidia just announced like 17 new features, they are falling further and further behind every single day. If they have to make new features require new hardware then so be it. They have nothing left to lose, they will soon be at zero market share at the pace Nvidia is moving

AMD is not really that far behind. In fact they are ahead in some features with driver level FSR and Frame Generation.

AMD has frame generation on driver level so they just need to play dirty. Add a couple of extra fake frames like Nvidia did and then release some performance graphs with games that do not support Nvidia Frame Generation and claim AMD 9070 > Nvidia 5090 at one fourth of the price.

Of course Nvidia shills like Digital Foundry will be foaming at the mouth and release a dozen videos crying about it but who cares? An insignificant portion of PC gamers watches their videos.

 

[Cyborg]

If the new (5070) card from Nvidia is indeed as powerfull as a 4090 all is over! I mean for that price (even 5080) you would be crazy to touch AMD tech.

 

[llien]

The only people saying it looks good (or words to that effect) simply don't know any better.

TPU, Computerbase, that hardware jesus, Hardware Unboxed, heck, pretty much anyone but PF praised spatial FSR, "close to native" being the conclusion about the highest quality upscale.

There are settings at which it stops making sense, but people expecting smooth doubling+ of resolution are delusional no matter what tech is used.

If the new (5070) card from Nvidia is indeed as powerfull as a 4090 all is over!

Yeah.
I mean, it's not even remotely imaginable that "8K gaming with 3090" and "3080 is 2 times faster than 2080" would lie to you.

Spoiler

30% faster is reasonable to expect.

And Faux frame figures are for idiots. My 15 y.o TV could inflate frames without me spending half a thousand on a GPU

 

[llien]

No.
If a game supports DLSS then

Then it has motion vectors and is a TAA derivative. Thanks.
It is still peculiar how one could override DLSS DLL on a driver level. Or can it?

Transformer based implementation

Do you really know what transformer and CNN are, or are you just throwing around cool new buzzwords that somehow sound like magic to you?

 

[Black_Stride]

Then it has motion vectors and is a TAA derivative. Thanks.
It is still peculiar how one could override DLSS DLL on a driver level. Or can it?

ITs still DLSS its just a DLSS Override in the driver so games have the latest version of DLSS without you needing to use DLSSTweak Tool or do some DLL swapping which can lead to weirdness (*stares at Plagues Tale Requiem)

Do you really know what transformer and CNN are, or are you just throwing around cool new buzzwords that somehow sound like magic to you?

I dont need to know what happens in the blackbox as long as I know the new blackbox does better than the old one.

<---CS Grad but didnt major in Machine Learning and has no interest in going into it.

 

[StereoVsn]

ITs still DLSS its just a DLSS Override in the driver so games have the latest version of DLSS without you needing to use DLSSTweak Tool or do some DLL swapping which can lead to weirdness (*stares at Plagues Tale Requiem)



I dont need to know what happens in the blackbox as long as I know the new blackbox does better than the old one.

<---CS Grad but didnt major in Machine Learning and has no interest in going into it.

Yeah, basically Nvidia seems to have rewritten DLSS stack based on better performing models.

And like you said, the override is similar to existing tweaking tools (or DLL replacement) but done through Nvidia app and at driver level override.

 

[Zathalus]

The cope by the AMD crowd in this thread is the same old tired playbook. FSR is just as good as DLSS, actually DLSS is shit anyway, no wait FSR 1 is pretty good. Who cares about frame generation, no wait, AMD has it at a driver level. Also, calling anyone that praises the technology Nvidia offers shills, because God forbid you think Nvidia delivers amazing products with the only major flaw being that they are overpriced. AMD is totally going to deliver this gen with Polaris Vega RDNA RDNA2 RDNA3 RDNA4.

 

[Gaiff]

The cope by the AMD crowd in this thread is the same old tired playbook. FSR is just as good as DLSS, actually DLSS is shit anyway, no wait FSR 1 is pretty good. Who cares about frame generation, no wait, AMD has it at a driver level. Also, calling anyone that praises the technology Nvidia offers shills, because God forbid you think Nvidia delivers amazing products with the only major flaw being that they are overpriced. AMD is totally going to deliver this gen with Polaris Vega RDNA RDNA2 RDNA3 RDNA4.

Seriously. The ball was in AMD’s court. What did they do? Say FSR4 and RDNA4 are coming and nothing else. No prices, no demonstration, nothing about updating existing features, nil. Then the usual suspects are there to shit on NVIDIA as if AMD hadn’t just defecated in their pants live on stage.

 

[Zathalus]

Seriously. The ball was in AMD’s court. What did they do? Say FSR4 and RDNA4 are coming and nothing else. No prices, no demonstration, nothing about updating existing features, nil. Then the usual suspects are there to shit on NVIDIA as if AMD hadn’t just defecated in their pants live on stage.

Yeah, the obsession with hating Nvidia and being loyal to AMD is bizarre. I've said before that if AMD was competitive with Nvidia at the absolute high end, I would swap as I have no brand loyalty. I bought a 6900 XT at launch as I thought RT was a bit underwhelming coming off of the 2080ti, DLSS 2 was still gaining steam, and AMD promised FSR as a worthy competitor "soon". That turned out to be a mistake, should have just spent extra on the 3090 at launch. Alas, Nvidia is so far ahead these days that I simply don't see AMD catching up, unless Nvidia fumbles or AMD really swings it out of the park with UDNA.

 

[mhirano]

DLSS 4 is an update to great existing tech.
FSR4 is made from scratch using different tech and new hardware cause previous version sucked. Now AMD can begin competing with NVIDIA and Intel upscaling

 

[YeulEmeralda]

 

[DirtInUrEye]

I have 7900 XT and I feel a little sidelined. Intel could do it with XeSS but AMD can't with FSR4? When I was buying the card AMD GPUs were all about open source, 'fine wine' etc. I was hoping the FSR technology will only mature and I'm not going to be left behind so suddenly, one generation later. AMD by their actions earned certain high standard, that was very attractive to me, and they suddenly decided to abandon it.

That being said, I'm happy with my 20gb of vram. While FSR3 is not perfect it's fine on my 4k TV. It's worse on 1440p monitor but, for now, everything runs fine native on this resolution. I'm satisfied with the product.

I have to say though, when I'm seeing all the people cheering for FSR4 exclusivity, all I can think about is people that would NEVER buy AMD GPU anyway and all they want is to Radeon to just follow Nvidia's footsteps so NV products won't get too expensive and complacent. No one cares for the current users

I'm on Nvidia myself but my kid has a 7000 series card. The amount of people losing sleep over 200% cherry-picked FSR zoom shots featured on DF makes me laugh. Even on 1440p displays, FSR looks quite decent, or "easily good enough". On a big living room telly, FSR Quality and even Balanced is still preferable to doing something like internal 1080p upscaled (by the panel) to 4k.

DLSS is obviously king, but FSR ain't as bad as they say. Still, I set my son up with TSR where available.

 

[poppabk]

The cope by the AMD crowd in this thread is the same old tired playbook. FSR is just as good as DLSS, actually DLSS is shit anyway, no wait FSR 1 is pretty good. Who cares about frame generation, no wait, AMD has it at a driver level. Also, calling anyone that praises the technology Nvidia offers shills, because God forbid you think Nvidia delivers amazing products with the only major flaw being that they are overpriced. AMD is totally going to deliver this gen with Polaris Vega RDNA RDNA2 RDNA3 RDNA4.

The major flaw isn't the price but that the lower models are gimped with VRAM. I went with 6900XT over 3070 (similar prices when I was buying) or paying the extra $200 for a 3080 purely because of this. I am consistently reminded that I made the right choice as more and more games have become vram limited. Sure I get shittier upscaling, but at 4K quality it at least isn't distracting for the most part. The RT I am jealous of, but the vram often bottlenecks this as well.

 

[LordOfChaos]

I mean AMD only just added dedicated cores for this rather than triple pumping upscaling and RT all through their CUs before, that's why

Not a cope just a literal explanation

 

[Zacfoldor]

There is safety in numbers for GPU. Get the most popular product of the most popular brand and you will have lower chance of getting bilked.

 

[SolidQ]

I mean AMD only just added dedicated cores

no Matrix cores until UDNA
They just add SWMMAC to RDNA4

 

[Wolzard]

I'm on Nvidia myself but my kid has a 7000 series card. The amount of people losing sleep over 200% cherry-picked FSR zoom shots featured on DF makes me laugh. Even on 1440p displays, FSR looks quite decent, or "easily good enough". On a big living room telly, FSR Quality and even Balanced is still preferable to doing something like internal 1080p upscaled (by the panel) to 4k.

DLSS is obviously king, but FSR ain't as bad as they say. Still, I set my son up with TSR where available.

It reminds me of the poor Xbox One, with those Digital Foundry comparisons highlighting the 900p of most games. Until one day I saw one playing at a relative's house and this low resolution was imperceptible on a 1080p TV at 2 meters away from the TV.

Ultimately, it comes down to the diminishing returns of distance X screen size.

 

[Cryio]

Nvidia: DLSS upscaler is supported on RTX 20, 30, 40, 50. Other GPUs, get bent. Users: we love you Nvidia

AMD: FSR upscaler is supported on: GCN1, GCN2, GCN3, GCN4, GCN5, RDNA1, RDNA2, RDNA3, RDNA4, Maxwell, Pascal, Turing non RTX, RTX 20, 30, 40, 50, Intel, Playstation 5, Playstation 4, Xbox Series, probably Xbox One. AMD MAYBE decides to upgrade FSR finally for RDNA4 only: Users: SCREW YOU AMD, NVIDIA PROVIDES VALUE.

I swear 99% of the internet is brain dead.

 

[Buggy Loop]

The cope by the AMD crowd in this thread is the same old tired playbook.

Oh yea

and always the same persons

3 generations of cope now

Peoples still insist on comparing SMs vs CUs or pure raster (which games even needs help running raster games, is >300 fps not enough?), or that RT is a myth (until AMD gets it right) or ML is fake (until AMD implements a version without AI that is more crap) or that upscaling is crap (until AMD invents a subpar version without ML)

It's real fucking sad.

AMD cult fans are AMD's worse enemies (after AMD marketing). With this kind of feedback, why would AMD even need to get their shit together

 

[TheRedRiders]

Yeah, the obsession with hating Nvidia and being loyal to AMD is bizarre. I've said before that if AMD was competitive with Nvidia at the absolute high end, I would swap as I have no brand loyalty. I bought a 6900 XT at launch as I thought RT was a bit underwhelming coming off of the 2080ti, DLSS 2 was still gaining steam, and AMD promised FSR as a worthy competitor "soon". That turned out to be a mistake, should have just spent extra on the 3090 at launch. Alas, Nvidia is so far ahead these days that I simply don't see AMD catching up, unless Nvidia fumbles or AMD really swings it out of the park with UDNA.

I think it has something to do with wanting to support the "underdog", and people want to see them go up against and humble "big bad Nvidia"... I don't know for certain but honestly these people should realise that AMD are just the same as every other business and they don't have a benevolence towards the gaming community.

Regardless of what delusional posters say we'll all will and have voted with our wallets and the respective sales and profit figures of both companies reflects that.

 

[DeepEnigma]

AMD cult fans are AMD's worse enemies (after AMD marketing). With this kind of feedback, why would AMD even need to get their shit together

Parallels and all that chin gravy