Spell Queller has been getting all the hype
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Magic: the Gathering |OT8| Eldritch Moon - It's only a paper (and digital) moon
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Spell Queller has been getting all the hype
Simply Sarah
Member
I'm not convinced Miracles can exist as a really competitive deck without Top. Its combined abilities to stack the deck and draw a card are both critical. Sure, you can sort of replace the first effect with stuff like Scroll Rack, Crystal Ball, Soothsaying, etc. but then you need an additional draw source (and probably at least one more mana) to trigger opponent turn Terminus or Entreat. Scroll Rack and Crystal Ball also means you need duplicates on the field to use with fetches whereas something like Soothsaying costs too much mana.
divisionbyzorro
Member
The only decks that really need it are Goryo's Vengeance decks. Otherwise, all it does is add additional variance to the game. It lets stupid janky decks occasionally get nut draws and win games they have no business winning. It doesn't actually make the games more interesting. Oh, they had the double SSG draw? I guess I'm dead - that was cool.
I actually don't dislike the card, but it doesn't fit with WotC's current vision of what Modern should look like.
I agree that it isn't seeing play. But things like Goryo's Vengeance decks use it too to create some really unfun early turn oops I win scenarios. I think it's also more of a "break it before it breaks things" type ban. Because it could get really gross with the right stuff.
Not a fan of premature bans.
I personally think the Goryo's decks winning on turn 2 are in violation of the "turn 4 format" rule, so it wouldn't actually be premature.
Abzan company is the best coco list and you forgot to mention elves. Both decks are light years better than the decks you mentioned.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
yeah others already corrected me on that, legit blanked on them. And I even build coco elves some time back.
Plenty of other decks get by with just 4 Brainstorms in their 75. Miracles could do the same without infinite copies, and colorless at that.
The problem with Top is two-fold. It makes Counterbalance way too good (probably should have been a "if its the first spell cast this turn, counter it" clause) and creates awful gamestates later on. It also drags out the amount of time the game takes by letting the player rearrange the top of the deck at the end of every turn.
Top is fine, people just need to call judges for slow play more. If you're taking more than a few seconds per activation when most of the cards were already known, you're doing it wrong.
If you want to knock miracles down without killing it completely then you ban terminus. Instant speed basically free wrath is the biggest reason for the decks staying power.
If you want to knock miracles down without killing it completely then you ban terminus. Instant speed basically free wrath is the biggest reason for the decks staying power.
Simply Sarah
Member
Brainstorm isn't a solution for playing opponent turn Miracle cards unless you've already stacked your deck. Also, other decks don't need to worry about the the order of their top deck in the same way nor do they generally care about whether or not something is the first draw of a turn. Also the fact that Brainstorm costs U instead of nothing makes a difference.
I'm not saying Top isn't a problem and I'm not saying it shouldn't be banned. It's a problematic card. I'm just saying Miracles would be a casualty of such a ban. That's not inherently good or bad, it just is.
I mean, sorry to Joe Lossett (who seems like a nice and hardworking guy), but I kinda hate Miracles so I wouldn't mind if it was gone.
charlequin
Banned
Zero chance.
It's always a little slow, usually a couple weeks after a major set release. I guess it's running a bit behind since EMA isn't in there yet, but I don't think that means anything besides that it's running a bit behind.
I don't think SSG really counts as "premature." We've seen the card be a fundamental part of the last few broken environments in the format and we know it doesn't ever do anything good or positive. To me a premature ban is a card we haven't seen in play yet, not one that just happens to be between active problems at the moment.
SigmasonicX
Member
From the red Limited Review, I hadn't realized the flavor that your opponent casting a spell to destroy Mirrorwing Dragon brings them "bad luck".
A bunch of Pro Tour stuff at the link, including this poster:
I assumed it was just Mirror = reflection.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Kirblar is right: Simian Spirit Guide only sees play when something broken is coming out. There's no reason for SSG to be legal while Lotus Petal isn't in the format and Chrome Mox is banned.
charlequin
Banned
Oh man, that poster is sweet. They should be doing full-art promo cards with art like that.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Apparently the HOF promotion stats by Wizards are wrong. Which is really bad considering the way people get added to it.
This is where I'm at.
A Serious Man
Member
This is dope.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Why did they put Liliana instead of Emrakul on the PT playmat?
Marketable humanoids only plz
There's a planeswalker symbol in the castle.
Also, Conspiracy spoilers start in a month!
Today's legendrule: Goblin King
TheBlackMarvel
Member
It seems a real waste not to have that as a promo card.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Most recent take:
The only thing I'm splashing green for is Collected Company now. Anafenza is way better than she looks in this deck. Bygone Bishop is the worst card in the deck, but sometimes you get him going and you drown your opponent in cards.
Deck: Bant Spirits Company
//Lands
3 Evolving Wilds
1 Forest
5 Island
7 Plains
3 Port Town
3 Prairie Stream
3 Yavimaya Coast
//Spells
4 Collected Company
3 Unsubstantiate
1 Stasis Snare
//Creatures
3 Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
2 Bygone Bishop
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
4 Nebelgast Herald
4 Rattlechains
4 Reflector Mage
2 Selfless Spirit
4 Spell Queller
//Sideboard
3 Stasis Snare
3 Negate
1 Planar Outburst
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Selfless Spirit
3 Essence Flux
Display deck statistics
The only thing I'm splashing green for is Collected Company now. Anafenza is way better than she looks in this deck. Bygone Bishop is the worst card in the deck, but sometimes you get him going and you drown your opponent in cards.
Deck: Bant Spirits Company
//Lands
3 Evolving Wilds
1 Forest
5 Island
7 Plains
3 Port Town
3 Prairie Stream
3 Yavimaya Coast
//Spells
4 Collected Company
3 Unsubstantiate
1 Stasis Snare
//Creatures
3 Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
2 Bygone Bishop
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
4 Nebelgast Herald
4 Rattlechains
4 Reflector Mage
2 Selfless Spirit
4 Spell Queller
//Sideboard
3 Stasis Snare
3 Negate
1 Planar Outburst
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Selfless Spirit
3 Essence Flux
Display deck statisticsEven with SSG, Goryo's Vengence decks aren't consistent enough to really be worth hitting something like Ad Nauseam as well. The increased use of Grafdigger's Cage and Relic of Progenitus have sideswiped that deck without it being the primary use case for a ban. Players have long since switched to other options like the RG Through the Breach or others.
If we're talking about preemptive bans to get ahead of potential and/or creeping problems we should just go ahead and ban Collected Company, Chord of Calling (really, Chord is the actual problem in decks with both), Become Immense, Glistener Elf, Mox Opal, Blood Moon, and SSG. The same logic probably forces things like SFM and BBE to remain banned (as they should be) for good. As I've said, I don't think a ban for SSG is never going to happen, I just don't think preemptive bans for cards that 'could' be an issue but aren't currently is a slippery slope that we might be happier avoiding entirely. This is especially true if it would significantly impact decks that are considered to be part of the current healthy meta.
Other than make Ad Nauseam a reasonably playable and competitive deck.
Infinite Stars
Member
Collected Company is a perfectly "fair" Magic Card in Modern, and I'd even say it was fair in Standard during the DtK/Origins/BFZ Era. However, the moment that the card stops being "Look at the top 6, put up to two with CMC <=3 into play" and becomes a 4 mana get 6+ CMC in value is where I draw the line.
However, I don't think Wizards is going to hit CoCo with 2 months left in it's life. They didn't Rally when Oath came out after all.Spell Queller is going to be the straw that breaks CoCo(at least in Standard).
However, I don't think Wizards is going to hit CoCo with 2 months left in it's life. They didn't Rally when Oath came out after all.Spell Queller is going to be the straw that breaks CoCo(at least in Standard).
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
What I'd like to see in Modern is: "8th Edition Is No Longer legal in the Modern format."
Its full of nonsense cards that have very little to do with Modern MTG design. The only really fun card you're losing is Bribery. Otherwise you're losing bullshit like Ensnaring Bridge, Choke and Boil.
Its full of nonsense cards that have very little to do with Modern MTG design. The only really fun card you're losing is Bribery. Otherwise you're losing bullshit like Ensnaring Bridge, Choke and Boil.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Isn't Blood Moon good for the format?
"Every Planeswalker of the Gatewatch is starring in their own set" schtick
Blood Moon is in 9th too.
No, it's not. 8th/9th getting included was a net negative.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
You can't ban Blood Moon. There's no incentive to play less than 4 or 5 colors without it.
You could print a Burning Earth variant that doesn't cost 4 mana and then ban it, though.
Spreading Seas is still a thing.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Great ban 8th edition then, choke vs fish is mean
I think having blood moon is good. Otherwise every deck can cast Cryptic Command w/o concessions and shit.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I don't think Spreading Seas by itself is enough to police 4 color decks with fetches + shocks in the format.
Giant Panda
Member
Ban the fetch lands at the same time as blood moon.
Infinite Stars
Member
This is a good thing why exactly? I never got this argument that Simian was good for Modern because he made Ad Nauseum be a deck. Would the deck really be broken if it was actually forced to run Red in place of Blue in the Manabase? The decklist that won GP Charlotte runs Blue for exactly 9 cards in the mainboard: Serum Visions(4x), Sleigh of Hand(4x) and Lab Maniac(1). Subbing in Looting for Visions/Sleigh for another Red rummaging/drawing spell and the Lab Maniac is the only reason to even consider blue in the mainboard.
There's also the fact that Chrome Mox is banned(yet can be beat before being used as a response to the Imprint Trigger), Lotus Petal is banned, Seething Song is banned, but the one card that you can't interact with that generates Mana Advantage is SSG.
I really like this idea. We'd still have stuff like Molten Rain, Ghost Quarter, and Crumble to Dust as well. There are positives to Blood Moon being in the format but it is a pretty dumb card. I'm conflicted on it but then I haven't ever seen a format without it so I have a hard time quantifying the impact the mere threat Blood Moon has within Modern deck construction.
thpbt
I guess I shouldn't expect good storytelling done through the format of trading cards.
This is Magic. Their marketing trumps story, every single time. They have to market cardboard after all.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The story of Innistrad mostly revolved around Nahiri and Sorin if you ask me.
It'd be noticeably worse than it currently is and the current incarnation is only a Tier 2 deck that occasionally pops up and bites people. The change would mean the deck has fewer fastlands with it replacing Seachrome Coast and Darkslick Shore with only Blackcleave Cliffs since there's no RW or BW Fastland currently. Maybe you mitigate this by running more Scry Lands and just accepting the slower roll. Loot/Rummage isn't as good as the blue options in the deck. In addition, casting Lightning Storm with your mana base means you'd need more lands out or a Christmas Land starting hand with multiple Lotus Blooms and a number of other pieces. It doesn't always cheat on a single mana, since it's drawing up all the SSGs left in the deck it's probably cheating on multiple in order to win in a Modern relevant time frame. With all that said, it'd be more fragile than it already is, more easily disrupted, and probably average something like two turns slower. So it's not broken, it's just no longer a competitive deck.
If we're willing to sacrifice a deck and impact a second to ban a card that, at least currently, isn't a problem... Okay. We've just got to be honest with trade off we're making and the negative impacts that stem from the decision.
I left feeling satisfied. Sorin got what was coming to him and Nahiri got to live. We good, WOTC, we good.
Why not try to give players an incentive to not play multiple colors instead? Granted, that's probably dangerous terrain, but still. As it is, as you correctly say, Blood Moon is a necessary evil.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
The easiest way would be by increasing the coloured mana costs but for that to be prohibitive costs like BBRR would probably not even be enough. BBBR or something could though.
They can't retroactively change mana costs for cards and I doubt they will start giving gold cards aggressive costs. Additionally many formats are dominated by fetch lands and dual lands because there is no reason not to play multiple colors. I hope they tackle this with Muraganda.
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