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PS5 Pro devkits arrive at third-party studios, Sony expects Pro specs to leak

Rob_27

Member
What was the price of the PS4 when the PS4 Pro was released?

£349 vs £249?
$399 vs $299?

3 years between the models

PS5 £449 / $499

It wouldn't be impossible for a similar scenario..

But I wish they would go all in and produce something we all want!.
 

PeteBull

Member
IMO PS4pro was to counter PC gaming that was for once actually affordable.

PC gaming is expensive and elitist again so I don't see the need for Sony to go all out. People buying €$700 GPUs are not their audience.
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/4gtGdH just for comparision, that rig is not only above ps5/xsx in everything possible, funnily enough its definitely above even vs what upcoming ps5pr0 gonna be, and we can get it for months at this price now.
 
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Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/4gtGdH just for comparision, that rig is not only above ps5/xsx in everything possible, funnily enough its definitely above even vs what upcoming ps5pr0 gonna be, and we can get it for months at this price now.
Call me crazy but I’m not sold on this system outperforming the Pro. Also, I know it still works fine for the most part but I really wouldn’t choose DDR4 this late in the game. 3600MT/s is ancient at this point and you’ll wanna do another few years with this system. How good will it be in 4 years from now? This is when having modern components is far preferable to saving a few $$$.

Regardless, you obviously can’t match the Pro buck-for-buck with a gaming rig but at the same time, who has ever built a gaming PC only thinking they didn’t wanna go over the price of a console? Come on. We’re all willing to pay more, just not insane prices.
 

PaintTinJr

Member
Prove it.

Road to Ps5 said:
The CUs contain a new specialized unit called the Intersection Engine which can calculate the intersection of rays with boxes and triangles.

To use the Intersection Engine first you build what is called an acceleration structure.

f:id:keepitreal:20200329150107j:plain


Its data in RAM that contains all of your geometry.

There's a specific set of formats you can use their variations on the same BVH concept. Then in your shader program you use a new instruction that asks the intersection engine to check array against the BVH.

While the Intersection Engine is processing the requested ray triangle or ray box intersections the shaders are free to do other work.
 

PeteBull

Member
Call me crazy but I’m not sold on this system outperforming the Pro. Also, I know it still works fine for the most part but I really wouldn’t choose DDR4 this late in the game. 3600MT/s is ancient at this point and you’ll wanna do another few years with this system. How good will it be in 4 years from now? This is when having modern components is far preferable to saving a few $$$.

Regardless, you obviously can’t match the Pro buck-for-buck with a gaming rig but at the same time, who has ever built a gaming PC only thinking they didn’t wanna go over the price of a console? Come on. We’re all willing to pay more, just not insane prices.
Guess we will see, and not long time from now :D
 

ergem

Member
The PS5pro comes in at $499. Its just not going to be anything more than $100 more than the base SKU.

Why? What does Sony achieve by a low-priced pro version? The pro version is not made for marketshare. It’s made for the enthusiasts.

What does Sony lose by a moderately expensive pro version, say $200-250 dollars more than the base version? I heard the argument about potential mass market PS6 becoming less impressive. But why should it matter to 80+% of base PS5 owners? PC version of games exist and will exist. Gamers will know and will have seen a more graphically heavy version games with or without an expensive ps5 pro.

I just don’t get it why the pro has to conform to the rules of the base model. The pro has or should adopt a different business model.
 

Zathalus

Member
Call me crazy but I’m not sold on this system outperforming the Pro. Also, I know it still works fine for the most part but I really wouldn’t choose DDR4 this late in the game. 3600MT/s is ancient at this point and you’ll wanna do another few years with this system. How good will it be in 4 years from now? This is when having modern components is far preferable to saving a few $$$.

Regardless, you obviously can’t match the Pro buck-for-buck with a gaming rig but at the same time, who has ever built a gaming PC only thinking they didn’t wanna go over the price of a console? Come on. We’re all willing to pay more, just not insane prices.
You can do better for a bit less. Microcenter does a bundle with a 7700x, mobo, 32GB DDR5 6000. All of that plus a 4070 Super (soon to release), case, PSU, SSD should be around $1250. PS5 Pro beating performance for probably twice the price.

Obviously not beating consoles on a price/performance metric, but not exactly insane price for really good PC performance. Bump up to a 4070 Ti Super and that would really dunk on console performance for $1450 (and you would have a 16GB GPU).
 

Zathalus

Member
Doesn't that support what rnlval rnlval said? He claimed that RDNA 2 RT hardware accelerates ray/box/triangle intersections. Just that it doesn't do BVH transverse, DXR flag feature, and triangle interpolation.

Nvidia accelerates those in the RT core while RDNA2 requires that the shaders do it, hence AMD lagging behind Nvidia in RT performance, especially as RT or PT gets heavier use. Not exactly news, this was known since the first RDNA2 card was benchmarked.

AMD (and thus Sony) appear to be switching to something similar as Nvidia with the leaked news of dedicated RT cores.
 
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Mr.Phoenix

Member
Why? What does Sony achieve by a low-priced pro version? The pro version is not made for marketshare. It’s made for the enthusiasts.

What does Sony lose by a moderately expensive pro version, say $200-250 dollars more than the base version? I heard the argument about potential mass market PS6 becoming less impressive. But why should it matter to 80+% of base PS5 owners? PC version of games exist and will exist. Gamers will know and will have seen a more graphically heavy version games with or without an expensive ps5 pro.

I just don’t get it why the pro has to conform to the rules of the base model. The pro has or should adopt a different business model.
I dont know what to tell you other than that sony is in the userbase business.

you see what you are saying, and people like you, is what people that simply lack a fundamental understanding of the console business would say. Those are the kinda expectations you would have.

A better question to ask would be, what benefit would it be to Sony to have a console that costs $700/$800 and that would only be sold to like 2-3%% of the entire PS userbase? How does that benefit sony? You and the "enthusiasts" like you, fail to realize how small a niche of the market you represent.

Sony is not making a PS5pro to have the most cutting-edge gaming hardware you can fit into an $800 box. That will appeal to only like 1-5M people over the course of the next 3-4 years. And its a stupid strategy to take being that in a year or two after that the PC market would catch up and exceed it at that price point anyway. Nope, they are making a slightly better version of the PS5 that will appeal to the 20-30M people over the next 3-4 years who are not as budget-conscious as the people trying to buy a console for $300/$400. And also helps curb the potential cannibalization of potential customers that could be buying into a gaming PC for $7-800.
 

PeteBull

Member
Why? What does Sony achieve by a low-priced pro version? The pro version is not made for marketshare. It’s made for the enthusiasts.

What does Sony lose by a moderately expensive pro version, say $200-250 dollars more than the base version? I heard the argument about potential mass market PS6 becoming less impressive. But why should it matter to 80+% of base PS5 owners? PC version of games exist and will exist. Gamers will know and will have seen a more graphically heavy version games with or without an expensive ps5 pro.

I just don’t get it why the pro has to conform to the rules of the base model. The pro has or should adopt a different business model.
Personally i would love 999$ msrp ps5pr0, that instead of bit overclocked zen2 cpu and 7800xt, had as its baze zen4 cpu and 7900xtx, but unfortunately we got ps4pr0 to compare(and that very realistic and heartbreaking leak, rip).
And it was same cpu like in base ps4 just clocked higher, gpu wise it was midrange amd offering, not even highend, at that time, and like mentioned again, ps5pr0 would have to be made on 3nm node for it to be really big improvement in terms of performance, while still being around 220W tdp aka console box format, remember miles morales on base ps5 drew over 200W of power already(measured by DF, so legit info).
TLDR: There is not much room for improvement, aka it cant go 140W ps5 to 250W ps5pr0 but it will realisticly go from 220W ps5 base to 220W maybe tiny bit more for ps5pr0.

Its not even as much sony's fault, simply amd has no good offering for them to give, at least for now, they have great price/perf in midrange, but at high end its combo of very high tdp and not that much of improvement unfortunately, rnda3 was big letdown/diseaster in terms of top performance, both in raster and in raytracing, thats why currently u got top nvidia's 4090 at around 2k usd streetprice vs top amd's 7900xtx at not even 1k usd street price, it is what it is =/
 
Given how many people complain about 30 fps, there's def a robust market for a Pro console. At $599, it would be $150 more than the base model. You could find enough people to trade in their base console for a Pro and pay the difference.
 

Mr.Phoenix

Member
Given how many people complain about 30 fps, there's def a robust market for a Pro console. At $599, it would be $150 more than the base model. You could find enough people to trade in their base console for a Pro and pay the difference.
LMAO... classic.

By how many and robust are you talking about we whiny bunch on forums like these?

I am curious... in the almost two years since its release, and considering how much many people talk about it... what do you think the total sales of the Steam deck is?

There is a lesson in the answer to that question, its that don't ever mistake enthusiasts forums to paint a picture of what is going on in the industry.

Man so much talk in this thread and the friggin specs haven't leaked yet. :/
There have been leaks.

How much you want to believe them is another matter.
 
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Loxus

Member
So, there's an AMD patent that adds the Traversal Engine.
Most likely coming in RDNA4.

KzK4rdN.png


Also, AMD current RT is just as dedicated as Nvidia's.
Just that the Traversal Engine is currently missing.

AMD Dual Compute Unit (DCU) = Nvidia Stream Multiprocessor (SM)

2kxOnWG.jpg

uPV45cU.png
 
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Is this written by a 5 years old?

Paul Tassi is the same fuck who was writing articles supporting Bungie's decision to implement the "Content Vault" aka the removing of $150 worth of Destiny 2 content that owners of the game will never be able to play again.

Fuck Paul Tassi and his ilk. I have no love or trust for a degenerate shill "journalist" like this piece of shit.
 

Loxus

Member
PS5 Pro will use the same Zen2 as PS5 cuz they will strike two birds with one stone (porting Zen2 to N4P for PS5 slim will cost so they will also use it for PS5 Pro)

4a5001b7beea096457f480c8808572428b-09-roll-safe.rsquare.w400.jpg
Might as well go the chiplet route then.

LohcQa8.jpg

7Fn3q8P.jpg

mfHqPjS.png


Using below image as a reference.
axJ7Cfk.png


The PS5 would consist of 1 AID with 2 SED stacked on top and a CCD.

PS5 Pro would consist the same units as the PS5 but with an additional AID with 2 SED.


Also, when looking at the PS4 and PS4 Pro die shot. The Jaguar Cores wasn't a simple port. The individual core were rearranged a bit.
gtCQZ7A.jpg
yI3xF7I.jpg
 

Mr.Phoenix

Member
7So, there's an AMD patent that adds the Traversal Engine.
Most likely coming in RDNA4.

KzK4rdN.png


Also, AMD current RT is just as dedicated as Nvidia's.
Just that the Traversal Engine is currently missing.

AMD Dual Compute Unit (DCU) = Nvidia Stream Multiprocessor (SM)

2kxOnWG.jpg

uPV45cU.png

This is great news and the single most important piece of news leading up to the PS5pro. And it explains a lot...

Alan Wake - Non RT and (RT) @1440p
7900XTX - 94fps (44fps)
7900XT - 82fps (39fps)
4070 - 62fps (50fps)
7800XT - 62fps (29fps)
6800XT - 57fps (26fps)
7700XT - 53fps (26fps)

A PS5pro, that has a raster performance in the ballpark of a 7700XT/6800XT/7800XT/4070, but with RT performance of a 4070, could outperform a 7900XTX in game engines using RT. Thats saying that in some cases, a $5-$600 PS5pro, would outperform a currently $1000 GPU. I can imagine AMD would slash the price of the 7900XTX when their RDNA4 GPUs are released as even a 60CU RDNA4 GPU would wipe the floor with that card in games that have an RT mode.
 
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RTX 3080 10 GB can run out VRAM at 4K.


At 1080p, RTX 3080 (cutdown GA102) 10 GB is slightly superior over RX 6800 XT. The weakness of many Ampere SKUs is the low VRAM.

For 4K, GA102 relative RTX 3090 with 24 GB VRAM maintains its performance lead over RX 6900 Xt and RX 6800 XT.

Techpowerup didn't test RTX 3080 12 GB VRAM and RTX 3080 Ti 12 GB VRAM SKUs.

VRAM usage for The Last of US Part 1 https://www.techspot.com/review/2656-the-last-of-us-gpu-benchmark/

At 1440p Ultra Quality, RTX 3080 10 GB has similar results with RX 6800 XT, but 1% lows RTX 3080 10 GB is inferior.

RTX 3080 Ti 12 GB and RX 6900 XT 16 GB have similar average FPS and 1% low results from 1080p to 4K.
Yeah you got it I should have specified I wasn’t saying the 6800 is absolutely not stronger than the 3080 it’s just the environment they are in causing this unusual performance discrepancy
 
This is great news and the single most important piece of news leading up to the PS5pro. And it explains a lot...

Alan Wake - Non RT and (RT) @1440p
7900XTX - 94fps (44fps)
7900XT - 82fps (39fps)
4070 - 62fps (50fps)
7800XT - 62fps (29fps)
6800XT - 57fps (26fps)
7700XT - 53fps (26fps)

A PS5pro, that has a raster performance in the ballpark of a 7700XT/6800XT/7800XT/4070, but with RT performance of a 4070, could outperform a 7900XTX in game engines using RT. Thats saying that in some cases, a $5-$600 PS5pro, would outperform a currently $1000 GPU. I can imagine AMD would slash the price of the 7900XTX when their RDNA4 GPUs are released as even a 60CU RDNA4 GPU would wipe the floor with that card in games that have an RT mode.
Do you think the pro then could run a he 7900xtx settings there at 55-60fps?
 
Call me crazy but I’m not sold on this system outperforming the Pro. Also, I know it still works fine for the most part but I really wouldn’t choose DDR4 this late in the game. 3600MT/s is ancient at this point and you’ll wanna do another few years with this system. How good will it be in 4 years from now? This is when having modern components is far preferable to saving a few $$$.

Regardless, you obviously can’t match the Pro buck-for-buck with a gaming rig but at the same time, who has ever built a gaming PC only thinking they didn’t wanna go over the price of a console? Come on. We’re all willing to pay more, just not insane prices.
Your weirdly confident in the leaked specs let alone there being no changes. Me personally I don’t buy the leaked specs (outside of the 7800xt raster performance)
 
Why? What does Sony achieve by a low-priced pro version? The pro version is not made for marketshare. It’s made for the enthusiasts.

What does Sony lose by a moderately expensive pro version, say $200-250 dollars more than the base version? I heard the argument about potential mass market PS6 becoming less impressive. But why should it matter to 80+% of base PS5 owners? PC version of games exist and will exist. Gamers will know and will have seen a more graphically heavy version games with or without an expensive ps5 pro.

I just don’t get it why the pro has to conform to the rules of the base model. The pro has or should adopt a different business model.
The ps6 argument is also stupid cause none of the tech even in 2024 would be anyway comparable to a 2028 ps6 it’s like they are really underselling what a ps6 would be. More importantly even if they went extreme and made an all out pro that the ps6 only ends up being barely 2x more powerful than they are aware most people wouldn’t buy a pro especially if it’s super expensive so most people would still come in fresh with the ps6. What they do end up doing by not making the pro really powerful is turn off even a lot of hardcore fans from getting it (the people who the pro is primarily geared towards). I’d love a $700 pro that sports zen 5 full Rdna 4, and 20-24gb of memory a pro stronger than most pcs that could even get pc gamers on board but it seems they will cheap out once again
 

Mr.Phoenix

Member
Do you think the pro then could run a he 7900xtx settings there at 55-60fps?
Hard to say, then again hard to dismiss too. At the end of the day, in the benchmark I got the data from, all the GPUs tested were running the exact same MAX setting. And that game was using around 13GB of VRAM, so every card with up to 16GB would have fared well. The PS5pro however, is likely to have only like 14GB available for both GPU and CPU. So we would likely see the PS5 drop some things down to a medium preset instead of maxing out everything.

But my guess is it would be one of those things where the IQ differences from the cuts the PS5pro would have to make wouldn't be obviously discernable. Especially not from an average viewing distance and/or in motion.
 
I dont know what to tell you other than that sony is in the userbase business.

you see what you are saying, and people like you, is what people that simply lack a fundamental understanding of the console business would say. Those are the kinda expectations you would have.

A better question to ask would be, what benefit would it be to Sony to have a console that costs $700/$800 and that would only be sold to like 2-3%% of the entire PS userbase? How does that benefit sony? You and the "enthusiasts" like you, fail to realize how small a niche of the market you represent.

Sony is not making a PS5pro to have the most cutting-edge gaming hardware you can fit into an $800 box. That will appeal to only like 1-5M people over the course of the next 3-4 years. And its a stupid strategy to take being that in a year or two after that the PC market would catch up and exceed it at that price point anyway. Nope, they are making a slightly better version of the PS5 that will appeal to the 20-30M people over the next 3-4 years who are not as budget-conscious as the people trying to buy a console for $300/$400. And also helps curb the potential cannibalization of potential customers that could be buying into a gaming PC for $7-800.
Even at 500-600 most would still not buy a pro most will still go for the base model so why not go all out
 
Personally i would love 999$ msrp ps5pr0, that instead of bit overclocked zen2 cpu and 7800xt, had as its baze zen4 cpu and 7900xtx, but unfortunately we got ps4pr0 to compare(and that very realistic and heartbreaking leak, rip).
And it was same cpu like in base ps4 just clocked higher, gpu wise it was midrange amd offering, not even highend, at that time, and like mentioned again, ps5pr0 would have to be made on 3nm node for it to be really big improvement in terms of performance, while still being around 220W tdp aka console box format, remember miles morales on base ps5 drew over 200W of power already(measured by DF, so legit info).
TLDR: There is not much room for improvement, aka it cant go 140W ps5 to 250W ps5pr0 but it will realisticly go from 220W ps5 base to 220W maybe tiny bit more for ps5pr0.

Its not even as much sony's fault, simply amd has no good offering for them to give, at least for now, they have great price/perf in midrange, but at high end its combo of very high tdp and not that much of improvement unfortunately, rnda3 was big letdown/diseaster in terms of top performance, both in raster and in raytracing, thats why currently u got top nvidia's 4090 at around 2k usd streetprice vs top amd's 7900xtx at not even 1k usd street price, it is what it is =/
For 1000 it would be zen 5
 
So, there's an AMD patent that adds the Traversal Engine.
Most likely coming in RDNA4.

KzK4rdN.png


Also, AMD current RT is just as dedicated as Nvidia's.
Just that the Traversal Engine is currently missing.

AMD Dual Compute Unit (DCU) = Nvidia Stream Multiprocessor (SM)

2kxOnWG.jpg

uPV45cU.png

Has their been talks of back porting 3d v cache to older architectures as well?
 

Mr.Phoenix

Member
Even at 500-600 most would still not buy a pro most will still go for the base model so why not go all out
This is just not true.

There is precedent/historical data on the side of what and how a moderately powerful PSpro console would sell. As long as it is also reasonably priced. About 20-25% of the sales of the platform.

What you are pushing for is for them to do something that has NEVER been done, and a case where the closest thing to doing it failed miserably.

People will buy a PS5 for $399 that performs like a $800 PC. As they would buy a PS5pro for $500/$600 that performs like a $1200 PC. Thats the Goldilocks zone for consoles, the argument that you would need to spend almost twice as much to get PC equivalent performance. If you can understand that, then you can understand what the next two issues are.

1. There are a larger number of people with $5/600 to spend than there are with $800 to spend on a console.
2. when you star asking someone to spend $800 for a console, even if you would otherwise need to spend $1500 to get an equivalent specced PC, the console starts to lose its luster for being "just a console".
 
This is just not true.

There is precedent/historical data on the side of what and how a moderately powerful PSpro console would sell. As long as it is also reasonably priced. About 20-25% of the sales of the platform.

What you are pushing for is for them to do something that has NEVER been done, and a case where the closest thing to doing it failed miserably.

People will buy a PS5 for $399 that performs like a $800 PC. As they would buy a PS5pro for $500/$600 that performs like a $1200 PC. Thats the Goldilocks zone for consoles, the argument that you would need to spend almost twice as much to get PC equivalent performance. If you can understand that, then you can understand what the next two issues are.

1. There are a larger number of people with $5/600 to spend than there are with $800 to spend on a console.
2. when you star asking someone to spend $800 for a console, even if you would otherwise need to spend $1500 to get an equivalent specced PC, the console starts to lose its luster for being "just a console".
I didn’t say 800$ I agree that’s too much I’m talking $700 (I think the absolute max you can justify for a premium console) maybe 650.
 

Loxus

Member
Good thing I don’t buy the leaks then
Me neither, because we never got the PS5 specs from leaks. Not even the dev kit specs got leak.

We only got the PS5 dev kit pictures.
I would expect to see a picture of the PS5 Pro dev kit before we get the specs.
 
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Mr.Phoenix

Member
I think we see the PS5 Digital Edition drop to $399, the PS5 Disc Edition drop to $449 & The PS5 Pro release at $599.
Its a weird one, there officially is a PS5s bundled with a disc drive for $499. But then there are also PS5s + disc drive + game also for $499. I think they either keep the Spiderman 2 bundle going at that $499 price, or they stop the game bundles and then drop the prices as you have described.
Me neither, because we never got the PS5 specs from leaks. Not even the dev kit specs got leak.

We only got the PS5 dev kit pictures.
I would expect to see a picture of the PS5 Pro dev kit before we get the specs.
Unless I am misremembering things, but I could have sworn we had leaks of the PS5, complete with code names of Ariel and there was a lot of strife over the leaks suggesting the PS5 still had only 36CU. That piece of info was making everyone think it was fake. The only thing we didn't know was what clock speeds it would be at, but even then we got some stuff showing testing at 2Ghz or something like that.

And then look at the PS4pro, we got leaks of that. I feel as long as it's in the hand of third-party devs, 7-9 months is a LONG time to keep that shit secret.
 

Loxus

Member
Its a weird one, there officially is a PS5s bundled with a disc drive for $499. But then there are also PS5s + disc drive + game also for $499. I think they either keep the Spiderman 2 bundle going at that $499 price, or they stop the game bundles and then drop the prices as you have described.

Unless I am misremembering things, but I could have sworn we had leaks of the PS5, complete with code names of Ariel and there was a lot of strife over the leaks suggesting the PS5 still had only 36CU. That piece of info was making everyone think it was fake. The only thing we didn't know was what clock speeds it would be at, but even then we got some stuff showing testing at 2Ghz or something like that.

And then look at the PS4pro, we got leaks of that. I feel as long as it's in the hand of third-party devs, 7-9 months is a LONG time to keep that shit secret.
You must be thinking of the Github leak?
Which is much different than someone on twitter leaking specs.
 

Mr.Phoenix

Member
You must be thinking of the Github leak?
Which is much different than someone on twitter leaking specs.
Yup, but that leak turned out to be accurate. It got the CUs, got that it would be clocked at over 2Ghz (which at the time was unheard of), it even got the amount of RAM and bandwidth.

And leaks come in all shapes and forms, let's not forget Cboat... and then the Neo leak was a whole PDF.

I just don't think we can dismiss what has been said by someone who is so far 3 for 4 on everything he said. And the latest leaks pretty much line up with what was said before and has got that reasonable leak feel. Enough plausible stuff and enough stuff we doubt only for the hardware to be announced and we see its 90% accurate.
 

Loxus

Member
Yup, but that leak turned out to be accurate. It got the CUs, got that it would be clocked at over 2Ghz (which at the time was unheard of), it even got the amount of RAM and bandwidth.

And leaks come in all shapes and forms, let's not forget Cboat... and then the Neo leak was a whole PDF.

I just don't think we can dismiss what has been said by someone who is so far 3 for 4 on everything he said. And the latest leaks pretty much line up with what was said before and has got that reasonable leak feel. Enough plausible stuff and enough stuff we doubt only for the hardware to be announced and we see its 90% accurate.
Guess you weren't around when all the fake rumors where spreading like wild fire.
 
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Mr.Phoenix

Member
Guess you weren't around when all the fake rumors where spreading like wild fire.
I am not saying there weren't fake rumors. Hell, I even made up my own Pastebin fake just for shits and giggles. But that happens all the time. There will be leaks, some real, most fake. Happens every single time.

But we cannot dismiss the fact that the PS5 had at least one very very good accurate leak.
 

Loxus

Member
I am not saying there weren't fake rumors. Hell, I even made up my own Pastebin fake just for shits and giggles. But that happens all the time. There will be leaks, some real, most fake. Happens every single time.

But we cannot dismiss the fact that the PS5 had at least one very very good accurate leak.
And my point is, it didn't come from 4chan, reddit, pastebin, twitter, reset, ect.

Like I said, pictures first, then specs.
 

Xyphie

Member
The entire PS5 SoC spec basically leaked on H1 2019 via UserBenchmark/3DMark/PCI-ID repositories. Most of the big ticket items was known by then (8x Zen2 CPU with reduced cache, 36CU Navi 10-derived GPU with 256-bit 16GB GDDR6 etc).
 
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Loxus

Member
The entire PS5 SoC spec basically leaked on H1 2019 via UserBenchmark/3DMark/PCI-ID repositories. Most of the big ticket items was known by then (8x Zen2 CPU with reduced cache, 36CU Navi 10-derived GPU with 256-bit 16GB GDDR6 etc).
This is exactly how I expect the PS5 Pro specs to leak.

Still have some of those old leaks saved.

eRgHizm.jpg

Z2VLapN.png
 

ChiefDada

Member
This is great news and the single most important piece of news leading up to the PS5pro. And it explains a lot...

Alan Wake - Non RT and (RT) @1440p
7900XTX - 94fps (44fps)
7900XT - 82fps (39fps)
4070 - 62fps (50fps)
7800XT - 62fps (29fps)
6800XT - 57fps (26fps)
7700XT - 53fps (26fps)

A PS5pro, that has a raster performance in the ballpark of a 7700XT/6800XT/7800XT/4070, but with RT performance of a 4070, could outperform a 7900XTX in game engines using RT. Thats saying that in some cases, a $5-$600 PS5pro, would outperform a currently $1000 GPU. I can imagine AMD would slash the price of the 7900XTX when their RDNA4 GPUs are released as even a 60CU RDNA4 GPU would wipe the floor with that card in games that have an RT mode.

That's really all I've been trying to communicate in this thread/forum. The value proposition of entire suite of RDNA3 cards will look very bad when analyzed side by side with PS5 Pro. RT Units alone will do this. If there's AI upscaling AND RT units then all world nations will come together in mourning and remembrance of RDNA 3.

Sure, but if this is real PS5 Pro will have dedicated Ray Traversal and AI hardware upscaling. So much compute is being offloaded it would be wrong move to compare TF. This will smash a 7900xt in RT workloads

But PS5 Pro besting 7900xtx in RT workload is not out of reach at all if dedicated RT units come to fruition.
 

SolidQ

Member
If there's AI upscaling AND RT units then all world nations will come together in mourning and remembrance of RDNA 3.
All we know info about RT RDNA4(8700XT 64CU) - from 10% and up 50% faster than RDNA3, based on game/application, but RDNA4 have difference WGP compared to RDNA 3-3.5.
 
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ergem

Member
The ps6 argument is also stupid cause none of the tech even in 2024 would be anyway comparable to a 2028 ps6 it’s like they are really underselling what a ps6 would be. More importantly even if they went extreme and made an all out pro that the ps6 only ends up being barely 2x more powerful than they are aware most people wouldn’t buy a pro especially if it’s super expensive so most people would still come in fresh with the ps6. What they do end up doing by not making the pro really powerful is turn off even a lot of hardcore fans from getting it (the people who the pro is primarily geared towards). I’d love a $700 pro that sports zen 5 full Rdna 4, and 20-24gb of memory a pro stronger than most pcs that could even get pc gamers on board but it seems they will cheap out once again

I agree with most of what you said except the specs. I would just like Cerny to use the expensive 3nm and make the most efficient APU out of it. It will be expensive in the first two years for sure but the price will come down eventually.

The eventual Xbox next in 2026 wouldn’t have much advantage against the ps5 pro which will have come out 2 years earlier.

The PS6 will be when the next-gen starts in 2028 or 2029. The ps5 pro needs to be powerful now to tide us over.
 
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ergem

Member
I dont know what to tell you other than that sony is in the userbase business.

The ps5 covers that business model. Using that same business model for pro is pointless.

A better question to ask would be, what benefit would it be to Sony to have a console that costs $700/$800 and that would only be sold to like 2-3%% of the entire PS userbase? How does that benefit sony? You and the "enthusiasts" like you, fail to realize how small a niche of the market you represent.

A $700 PS5 PRO would only sell to 2-3% of the playstation userbase? I think you’re underestimating the playstation brand. At $700, it can sell 20-30 million like it’s mid-gen predecessor.

Sony is not making a PS5pro to have the most cutting-edge gaming hardware you can fit into an $800 box.

Using 3nm would be expensive in the first two years but the price will come down eventually. This generation will be longer than usual, perhaps 8-9 years before the PS6.

PS5 pro will compete with xbox next but next-gen will only start when Sony says so in 2028 or 2029.

 

PaintTinJr

Member
Doesn't that support what rnlval rnlval said? He claimed that RDNA 2 RT hardware accelerates ray/box/triangle intersections. Just that it doesn't do BVH transverse, DXR flag feature, and triangle interpolation.

Nvidia accelerates those in the RT core while RDNA2 requires that the shaders do it, hence AMD lagging behind Nvidia in RT performance, especially as RT or PT gets heavier use. Not exactly news, this was known since the first RDNA2 card was benchmarked.

AMD (and thus Sony) appear to be switching to something similar as Nvidia with the leaked news of dedicated RT cores.
No, that side note of the discussion was entirely about AMD RDNA2, with Nvidia hardware comparison a different context and part of the discussion .

I was making the side-point that unlike all other RDNA2 based cards the PS5 doesn't block texture unit access when using the BVH accelerators. Cerny's words I quoted convey that shaders would run in parallel to BVH tests. A shader without access to texture samplers would be a very limited use case for shaders running in parallel, so it is clear the PS5 doesn't block shader execution while BVH tests are running.
 

Loxus

Member
Using 3nm would be expensive in the first two years but the price will come down eventually. This generation will be longer than usual, perhaps 8-9 years before the PS6.
I'm not even sure the PS6 will use 3nm.

Shits super expensive and may not reduce in cost enough in 4 years for the PS6.



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ChiefDada

Member
All we know info about RT RDNA4(8700XT 64CU) - from 10% and up 50% faster than RDNA3, based on game/application, but RDNA4 have difference WGP compared to RDNA 3-3.5.

The real world RT numbers for PS5 Pro that's been floating around is >2x base PS5 RT performance. That lines up with RT compounded performance improvement from RDNA 2 - prospective RDNA 4.

RDNA 2 to RDNA 3 RT +50% = 100 ==> 150

RDNA 3 to RDNA 4 RT +50% = 150 ==> 225

225/100 = 2.25
 
I agree with most of what you said except the specs. I would just like Cerny to use the expensive 3nm and make the most efficient APU out of it. It will be expensive in the first two years for sure but the price will come down eventually.

The eventual Xbox next in 2026 wouldn’t have much advantage against the ps5 pro which will have come out 2 years earlier.

The PS6 will be when the next-gen starts in 2028 or 2029. The ps5 pro needs to be powerful now to tide us over.
Yeah forgot to add 3nm in my specs just didn’t know if it could fit in a 700 budget
 
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