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[DeepEnigma]

Man, come on.

What sub service hasn't increased in price in the last 3 years? They don't all have the '80b albatros' as the incentive and reason to increase the price like some argue Game Pass has.

Of all the possible and better arguments, this is the weakest one.

You were every bit apart of the gospel of Phil Spencer when he lied and said they would not increase it after purchasing ABK. Pushing back on everyone calling Spencer a bullshitter.

Don't try and flip the script now and use the exact same thing EVERYONE was saying towards the Gospel of Spencer.

 

[Oppoi]

Man, come on.

What sub service hasn't increased in price in the last 3 years? They don't all have the '80b albatros' as the incentive and reason to increase the price like some argue Game Pass has.

Of all the possible and better arguments, this is the weakest one.

They increased price and added/nerfed tiers way before ever reaching a stable user count or growth. It's a failure with clown makeup all over it.

 

[Topher]

Man, come on.

What sub service hasn't increased in price in the last 3 years? They don't all have the '80b albatros' as the incentive and reason to increase the price like some argue Game Pass has.

Of all the possible and better arguments, this is the weakest one.

If that is the case then all the “game pass is sustainable” arguments were bullshit from the beginning. Unless everyone wants to go back and edit their posts to say “sustainable if they raise prices” after the fact because we all know damn well that wasn’t the narrative before. It was all about Game Pass being the “best deal or value in gaming”.

 

[adamsapple]

You were every bit apart of the gospel of Phil Spencer when he lied and said they would not increase it after purchasing ABK. Pushing back on everyone calling Spencer a bullshitter.

Naah.

Again, what sub service hasn't increased in price? Even Phil said the price increase is inevitable after the acquisition.

I'm pretty sure if you look up my post history, i've said this numerous times in the last few years that no sub service ever remains static.

Here's one from two years ago.

Don't try and flip the script now and use the exact same thing EVERYONE was saying towards the Gospel of Spencer.

You're probably confusing me with someone else if you think I said prices will never increase.

Again, of all the arguments to use against GP, this is the weakest one.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Go back further than the recent 2023 coping.

If that is the case then all the “game pass is sustainable” arguments were bullshit from the beginning. Unless everyone wants to go back and edit their posts to say “sustainable if they raise prices” after the fact because we all know damn well that wasn’t the narrative before. It was all about Game Pass being the “best deal or value in gaming”.

 

[CliffBronger]

 

[Rawbutt Jellybean]

If that is the case then all the “game pass is sustainable” arguments were bullshit from the beginning. Unless everyone wants to go back and edit their posts to say “sustainable if they raise prices” after the fact because we all know damn well that wasn’t the narrative before. It was all about Game Pass being the “best deal or value in gaming”.

Every good or service is going to raise prices over time. Is this really surprising to you? lol

 

[adamsapple]

Go back further than the recent 2023 coping.

Just a little bit off but within the margin of error.

1. GP price increased in July 2023, my 'late 2023' comment was off by a couple of months, and 2. the price for the $9.99 GP increased to $10.99, not $12.99 like I thought.

Don't ask me to find 2021 posts now please

If that is the case then all the “game pass is sustainable” arguments were bullshit from the beginning. Unless everyone wants to go back and edit their posts to say “sustainable if they raise prices” after the fact because we all know damn well that wasn’t the narrative before. It was all about Game Pass being the “best deal or value in gaming”.

I don't see the correlation you're trying to make here.

Being sustainable or profitable hasn't stopped services like netflix from routinely increasing prices either.

Why would it have stopped game pass from getting price increase over the years?

 

[Clintizzle]

GamePass is the best deal in gaming

Spoiler

For me

This may change in the future but right now, its fantastic value for me. I don't care about how much money devs are making for these games.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Yeah, that shouldn’t be surprising at all to anybody. Why would you buy a game for $70 when you could just subscribe to Game Pass and not pay for it at all?

 

[Mr Moose]

1. GP price increased in July 2023, my 'late 2023' comment was off by a couple of months, and 2. the price for the $9.99 GP increased to $10.99, not $12.99 like I thought.

They did it in 2024 as well.

 

[Topher]

Just a little bit off but within the margin of error.

1. GP price increased in July 2023, my 'late 2023' comment was off by a couple of months, and 2. the price for the $9.99 GP increased to $10.99, not $12.99 like I thought.

Don't ask me to find 2021 posts now please




I don't see the correlation you're trying to make here.

Being sustainable or profitable hasn't stopped services like netflix from routinely increasing prices either.

Why would it have stopped game pass from getting price increase over the years?

Well, first just going to point out that the thread you are quoting yourself in was about Phil Spencer hinting that price increases were coming. That's not a thread discussing the "sustainability" of Game Pass.

Business - Phil Spencer hints at future Xbox Game Pass or console price increases at WSJ Live

:whistle:

www.neogaf.com

Either way, if the caveat had always been "Microsoft is obviously going to have to raise prices for Game Pass to remain sustainable" then that would have been a much different conversation from the ones I recall.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Yeah, that shouldn’t be surprising at all to anybody. Why would you buy a game for $70 when you could just subscribe to Game Pass and not pay for it at all?

Because I get more value in owning my $70 games.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Because I get more value in owning my $70 games.

I’d say 20% at most of addressable consumers on Xbox feel that way. It’s case-by-case for me. I felt same as you with Starfield. But then with Indiana I resubbed to Ultimate simply to play it. Nothing else of interest.

 

[DeepEnigma]

They did it in 2024 as well.

They'll probably do it again this year as well.

 

[adamsapple]

They did it in 2024 as well.

Yes, this is an objectively true statement.

Either way, if the caveat had always been "Microsoft is obviously going to have to raise prices for Game Pass to remain sustainable" then that would have been a much different conversation from the ones I recall.

Caveat from whom, users or Phil? Netflix, D+ or even Sony for PS+ don't say things like "but of course we'll need to increase the price again too" when they announce a price hike. No one would really say that.

But just to dissect it, this is Spencer's exact quote from the Totillo interview where that sustainable quote came from, he did say 'as it sits' when talking about it.

“No. Game Pass is very, very sustainable right now as it sits. And it continues to grow.”

 

[Rawbutt Jellybean]

You were every bit apart of the gospel of Phil Spencer when he lied and said they would not increase it after purchasing ABK. Pushing back on everyone calling Spencer a bullshitter.

Don't try and flip the script now and use the exact same thing EVERYONE was saying towards the Gospel of Spencer.

Do you have a link for this? IIRC they said the deal wouldn't cause a price increase which is very different than saying they wouldn't ever increase the price after the deal.

 

[Topher]

Yes, this is an objectively true statement.



Caveat from whom, users or Phil? Netflix, D+ or even Sony for PS+ don't say things like "but of course we'll need to increase the price again too" when they announce a price hike. No one would really say that.

But just to dissect it, this is Spencer's exact quote from the Totillo interview where that sustainable quote came from, he did say 'as it sits' when talking about it.

From whom? This forum. The place where you are quoting yourself. Yeah, Phil said GP was sustainable and didn't mention the possibility of price hikes then either. When he did mention it, the narrative changed.

 

[DeepEnigma]

IIRC they said the deal wouldn't cause a price increase which is very different than saying they wouldn't ever increase the price after the deal.

 

[Taur007]

it literally killed games sales on Xbox.

What are we even doing here?

Yeah cause they were so high before that right? How much did quantum break sell again? How bout gears 5?

You realize they created GP because their games WEREN'T selling that well. The last game that actually sold millions of copies early was halo 5 and even that underperformed for a halo game

 

[adamsapple]

From whom? This forum. The place where you are quoting yourself. Yeah, Phil said GP was sustainable and didn't mention the possibility of price hikes then either. When he did mention it, the narrative changed.

I'm sure if we go back into topics that far back, we'll find equal number of posts from the Xbox fan base saying that price hikes were inevitable. I can only quote myself and you can see my stance was pretty open about the possibility of more price increases.

Do you have a link for this? IIRC they said the deal wouldn't cause a price increase which is very different than saying they wouldn't ever increase the price after the deal.

Yes, the statement was that the price won't increase as a result of the merger.

They increased it a few months before it closed, lol.

 

[Idleyes]

Phil avoided addressing the topic of price increases directly, that’s the reality. He mentioned that Game Pass is sustainable today, subtly implying that if circumstances change and it becomes unsustainable [insert whatever you believe happens here]. Typical Corporate lip dancing.

 

[Rawbutt Jellybean]

Sorry for letting a request for proof get in the way of the console warring.

 

[Topher]

Do you have a link for this? IIRC they said the deal wouldn't cause a price increase which is very different than saying they wouldn't ever increase the price after the deal.

They raised prices and reorganized Game Pass three months before announcing Call of Duty would be coming to Game Pass. They changed Game Pass tiers so that new subscribers on consoles would not get day one games, including Call of Duty, unless they subscribed to Ultimate. They also killed the $1 deal the week before Call of Duty launched.

So either way, the ABK deal caused Game Pass prices to be raised.

I'm sure if we go back into topics that far back, we'll find equal number of posts from the Xbox fan base saying that price hikes were inevitable. I can only quote myself and you can see my stance was pretty open about the possibility of more price increases.

There wasn't much talk about price increases either way really. Your quotes are after the fact of Phil Spencer suggesting it was a possibility.

 

[adamsapple]

They raised prices and reorganized Game Pass three months before announcing Call of Duty would be coming to Game Pass. They changed Game Pass tiers so that new subscribers on consoles would not get day one games, including Call of Duty, unless they subscribed to Ultimate. They also killed the $1 deal the week before Call of Duty launched.

So either way, the ABK deal caused Game Pass prices to be raised.

The $1 deal gets taken down every now and then, there was a pretty massive topic on GAF about it being taken down before Starfield, can't put that one on the merger / CoD at least.

Sorry for letting a request for proof get in the way of the console warring.

Microsoft insists Game Pass prices ‘will not increase as a result of Activision merger’ | VGC

It says a price rise “would be counter-productive as it would increase subscriber churn rates”…

www.videogameschronicle.com

Microsoft has sought to dismiss suggestions that it could raise Xbox Game Pass prices should its $69 billion merger with Activision Blizzard be approved.

 

[Kappa]

Doesn't he just get uk data. Wouldnt that be pretty much worthless on account of everyone just playing cod, FIFA, and football manager there lol

 

[Topher]

The $1 deal gets taken down every now and then, there was a pretty massive topic on GAF about it being taken down before Starfield, can't put that one on the merger / CoD.

That's fair

 

[jm89]

Doesn't he just get uk data. Wouldnt that be pretty much be worthless on account of everyone just playing cod, FIFA, and football manager there lol

Europe aswell.

 

[Rawbutt Jellybean]

They raised prices and reorganized Game Pass three months before announcing Call of Duty would be coming to Game Pass. They changed Game Pass tiers so that new subscribers on consoles would not get day one games, including Call of Duty, unless they subscribed to Ultimate. They also killed the $1 deal the week before Call of Duty launched.

So either way, the ABK deal caused Game Pass prices to be raised.

Didn't Sony increase their prices around the same time?

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

You were every bit apart of the gospel of Phil Spencer when he lied and said they would not increase it after purchasing ABK. Pushing back on everyone calling Spencer a bullshitter.

Don't try and flip the script now and use the exact same thing EVERYONE was saying towards the Gospel of Spencer.

He didn’t say it wouldn’t increase after ABK. In fact he said price increases were inevitable. The same thing we had been saying for months in every Xbox thread. You weirdos have this obsession with taking everything Spencer says and twisting it and creating hilarious narratives that you can then later turn around and accuse others of believing.

Do you have a link for this? IIRC they said the deal wouldn't cause a price increase which is very different than saying they wouldn't ever increase the price after the deal.

There will be no links, only make believe from warriors.

 

[Topher]

Didn't Sony increase their prices around the same time?

Don't think so. Think they did in 2023.

 

[BigLee74]

Just a little bit off but within the margin of error.

1. GP price increased in July 2023, my 'late 2023' comment was off by a couple of months, and 2. the price for the $9.99 GP increased to $10.99, not $12.99 like I thought.

Don't ask me to find 2021 posts now please




I don't see the correlation you're trying to make here.

Being sustainable or profitable hasn't stopped services like netflix from routinely increasing prices either.

Why would it have stopped game pass from getting price increase over the years?

Don’t know about you, but I heard half the forum furiously searching your post history from all the way over here in Scotland

 

[Rawbutt Jellybean]

Don't think so. Think they did in 2023.

Fair enough, I know they've both been making tiers and increasing prices a lot lately.

It was a stupid thing for Phil to say though because it could easily be misconstrued. The reality is likely they were always going to increase the price whether or not the merger went through since that's what everyone is doing.

 

[DeepEnigma]

He didn’t say it wouldn’t increase after ABK. In fact he said price increases were inevitable. The same thing we had been saying for months in every Xbox thread. You weirdos have this obsession with taking everything Spencer says and twisting it and creating hilarious narratives that you can then later turn around and accuse others of believing.

There will be no links, only make believe from warriors.

And WTF are you?

Bitch, please.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Yeah cause they were so high before that right? How much did quantum break sell again? How bout gears 5?

You realize they created GP because their games WEREN'T selling that well. The last game that actually sold millions of copies early was halo 5 and even that underperformed for a halo game

how can explain your flawed logic

so, what you are saying is something like this:

"Oh shit, I just broke my arm. I will need to go to the doctor, get a cast, and have several months of therapy... or (stay with me boyz) just cut my fucking arm; problem solved!!

We know that this thinking was not the frame of mind that Xbox had. The things they did since 2016 were meant to improve the situation (including sales).

see?

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Yeah cause they were so high before that right? How much did quantum break sell again? How bout gears 5?

You realize they created GP because their games WEREN'T selling that well. The last game that actually sold millions of copies early was halo 5 and even that underperformed for a halo game

So many people fail to understand this. They werent going to beat Sony regardless. Their software was already struggling. Phil was dead on when he said they lost the most important generation.

Where MS fucked up is they figured the Series consoles would have sold more than they actually have. GamePass being a 10-15% piece of their pie is fine, they just thought the pie would be a lot bigger.

 

[Mr Moose]

They'll probably do it again this year as well.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

So many people fail to understand this. They werent going to beat Sony regardless. Their software was already struggling. Phil was dead on when he said they lost the most important generation.

Where MS fucked up is they figured the Series consoles would have sold more than they actually have. GamePass being a 10-15% piece of their pie is fine, they just thought the pie would be a lot bigger.

Free To Play games + GaaS as a combo is like Kryptonite for Gamepass. Outside of the small hardcore gaming base, the majority of people only play less than three games a year. And because of GaaS now many people only play ONE game over multiple years. The gaming habits of the human population is literally the very opposite of the ideal Gamepass subscriber, who is suppose to consume large quantities of game titles.

As was reported for a while now, GaaS was successful in keeping many people playing the same game over and over. That was not the case in the old days but it is the reality now. And Gamepass just doesn't interest these casual gamers.

 

[Varteras]

They raised prices and reorganized Game Pass three months before announcing Call of Duty would be coming to Game Pass. They changed Game Pass tiers so that new subscribers on consoles would not get day one games, including Call of Duty, unless they subscribed to Ultimate. They also killed the $1 deal the week before Call of Duty launched.

So either way, the ABK deal caused Game Pass prices to be raised.



There wasn't much talk about price increases either way really. Your quotes are after the fact of Phil Spencer suggesting it was a possibility.

I don't really have a reason for this. I've had this meme in my pocket and was itching to use it. So I checked your more recent posts to find one that I could use. Yes. I thought about telling you to shut the fuck up today for no reason and went out of my way when I got home.

 

[Topher]

I don't really have a reason for this. I've had this meme in my pocket and was itching to use it. So I checked your more recent posts to find one that I could use. Yes. I thought about telling you to shut the fuck up today for no reason and went out of my way when I got home.

 

[adamsapple]

And WTF are you?

Bitch, please.

 

[DeepEnigma]

 

[laynelane]

Free To Play games + GaaS as a combo is like Kryptonite for Gamepass. Outside of the small hardcore gaming base, the majority of people only play less than three games a year. And because of GaaS now many people only play ONE game over multiple years. The gaming habits of the human population is literally the very opposite of the ideal Gamepass subscriber, who is suppose to consume large quantities of game titles.

As was reported for a while now, GaaS was successful in keeping many people playing the same game over and over. That was not the case in the old days but it is the reality now. And Gamepass just doesn't interest these casual gamers.

I would add that for those that prefer physical media, have strong preferences in what types of games they like, like to go back to replay games (yes, I know you can still buy games but there's a mindset that gets introduced - ie. pay for subscription and pay for a copy of the game = paying twice), and have no interest in a games list curated by a corporation - Game Pass was never going to appeal to many non-casual gamers either. And, in that case, it misses out on word of mouth and recommendations that could have happened had more people subscribed.

 

[Laptop1991]

That's always been my opinion, i mean subscription based services are hardly likey to generate more money than sales at the present price ranges, although a lot of the games that have been released in the last few years wouldn't generate that much profit anyway in sales, as they are not good enough for gamers to pay top dollar for, which has happened in a lot of the triple A market, so it's swing's and roundabout's in the end.

 

[Sanepar]

So at best excluding live users converted how many subs gp has? 20-25 million?

 

[GulfCoastZilla]

That disingenuous thread title

Sales on Xbox
But everywhere else it raises awareness for people that have to pay full price.

If Xbox had PS5 or Switch level install base that would be a worry. But that shit is in last place.

The whole quote is

Anecdotally, games that are on Game Pass can expect to lose around 80% of their expected premium sales on Xbox. That's the figure that's often quoted.”

 

[Heisenberg007]

So at best excluding live users converted how many subs gp has? 20-25 million?

Based on the last data we have, 21.9 million subscribers (GP, excluding Gold Live members).

But that data is a little bit old - soon after they merged Xbox Gold Live with Game Pass.

 

[Heisenberg007]

That disingenuous thread title

Sales on Xbox
But everywhere else it raises awareness for people that have to pay full price.

If Xbox had PS5 or Switch level install base that would be a worry. But that shit is in last place.

The whole quote is

Anecdotally, games that are on Game Pass can expect to lose around 80% of their expected premium sales on Xbox. That's the figure that's often quoted.”

No evidence or data that game sales increase exponentially on those other platforms. More often than not, games that launch on Game Pass, especially Xbox first-party games, do not sell well on Steam either. So "awareness" doesn't necessarily translate into sales.

 

[Cakeboxer]

Game Pass is not a bad idea, day1 releases were. Should have been 3-6 months after release.

 

[Sanepar]

I

Based on the last data we have, 21.9 million subscribers (GP, excluding Gold Live members).

But that data is a little bit old - soon after they merged Xbox Gold Live with Game Pass.

I don't think they have a lot more now. They barely sold 5 million consoles in 2024.