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Russia begins Invasion of Ukraine

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FunkMiller

Banned
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-exports-100-days-war-bought-EU.html#comments

The EU has a lot to answer for. The amount of money they're still giving Russia for their oil/gas is ridiculous.

Yep. Everything being done sanctions wise is more or less pointless all the time Germany/France/ et al. keep feeding Putin’s coffers. It was exactly what he was depending on, and they just keep propping him up.

All the time we are all so dependent on fossil fuels, we will maintain Russia’s barbaric and mafia like government.
 
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Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Kherson front is starting to get interesting. Reportedly some UA troops got to 10KM from the center of the city - wether that's the actual front or just advance scouts, we don't know.

The orcs are reinforcing the northern side of the kherson front, reportedly, while UA is hitting the southern end.

As always situation is fluid and information is what it is.

On the eastern front, Severdonetsk is fubared since the bridges are shot. Unknown if there's any actual UA presence on the city or if they're just shelling to prevent the orcs from capturing.
 

HoodWinked

Member
Incredible... these sanctions continue to do nothing.

Mcdonalds basically handed Russia a fast food company on a golden plate. Instead of now making money off Russia, Russia gets to keep all the money within. Mcdonalds basically just trained all the employees, gave them months of unemployment, the building, the supply chains and know how.

 
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TwinB242

Member
Incredible... these sanctions continue to do nothing.

Mcdonalds basically handed Russia a fast food company on a golden plate. Instead of now making money off Russia, Russia gets to keep all the money within. Mcdonalds basically just trained all the employees, gave them months of unemployment, the building, the supply chains and know how.



And the new owners have already talked about how they're already planning to expand. They're going to be making even more money than what Mcdonalds was pulling in before the sale.
 

mxbison

Member
People really thought Russia would go broke after a couple of weeks?

They have shit tons of money. How do you think Putler and his ass licker squad became multi billionaires?

If they stop stealing all the money coming in they can keep the war machine going for a long time.
 

Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Apparently the last remaining bridge leading to Sievierodonetsk was just destroyed, so Ukrainian forces in the area are now cut off with no way across the Siverskyi Donets river :\
No big deal.

If past news of the Ukrainians being up against the wall is any indication they will just make a new bridge from the bones of the Russian soldiers they kill and win anyway.
 

Tams

Member
And the new owners have already talked about how they're already planning to expand. They're going to be making even more money than what Mcdonalds was pulling in before the sale.
Eh, it's almost all internal circulation of money. Well, 'circulation' as I'm sure a few Russians are going to get rich(er) off this.
 

Tams

Member
People really thought Russia would go broke after a couple of weeks?

They have shit tons of money. How do you think Putler and his ass licker squad became multi billionaires?

If they stop stealing all the money coming in they can keep the war machine going for a long time.
No, no one sane thought that.

And money doesn't buy you everything you need for a war. The sanctions are hurting them and hard. Of course, they could be hurting them even more but Germany particularly shat the bed from the early 00s and have wedded themselves to Russian energy, even as Putin showed his true colours in the late 00s.
 

MrA

Member
So what's your point? It sounds like you're trying to justify a false equivalence (and even it weren't two wrongs do not make a right).

The US and allies (well, pretty much just the UK) had good reasons to invade Iraq. Enough to justify an invasion? I doubt it. But Saddam literally used chemical weapons. It was much worse than other regimes at the time like Libya.

And Iraq never has produced that much oil (a fair amount, but not a major player - and yes, I am well aware that the person who kickstarted Norway's fossil fuel extraction and wealth fund was a British company trained Iraqi). That argument is frankly silly as it never was going to secure much oil production.

Russia on the other hand have absolutely zero good justification for their invasion. That they won't even call it an invasion or a war alone tells us that.
Don't forget France and Russia were running political interference for Saddam because they were greatly benefitting from the oil for food program
, something like half a million. Iraqis starved to death between the gulf War and the 2003 invasion because the food being delivered was either inedible or miss appropriated but France and Russia got an okay amount of dirt cheap oil, they were both willing to aid a dictator for it too
Plus Saddam was playing a game of chicken by messing with th UN weapons inspectors, violating the terms of surrender after the gulf War ( which let's not forget was an invasion of Kuwait for oil)
I didn't support the war even back i. 2003 because their was nothing to accomplish,
 
Please explain what you mean by "so rich" and tie that directly to specific sanctions. In the same post please explain what makes that "good". And lastly, please detail who you mean by "them". Cheers.
How much time you got?
In inflationary times with heavy trade imbalances where money value is highly volatile, commodities are king and Russia is king of commodities.
Outside of the west, no one is doing sanctions against Russia. So while across the whole word money is getting less valuable, their commodities increase and can easily be sold to non western states. The sanctions are directly tied to the price increase of those commodities and Russia can just sell them somewhere else. So the sanctions are directly responsible for making sure Russia gets more money for their Oil, Gas, Potash and other stuff. Oh and the West is still buying the stuff, too.

Making money is always good. Bad for the West of course, because they want the war to end, but as always with the "smart west" they fuck up and do stuff having the opposite effect of the desired outcome. (Like printing trillions so the market doesn't crash during corona - yeah it will just crash 2 years later when inflation kicks in and supply / demand imbalance shifts in the opposite direction).
The sanctions directly fund Russia's war chest.

Them is the Russian people. Sure the government and not ordinary people gets this money, but at the end of the day, a country, state or government is just their people.
And of course it sucks they waste money a a stupid war, but at the end of the day it might even be a net positive for Russia if you don't look at loss of life, on a personal level. On a macro level, loss of life is even mostly positive unless you get to a point of bad imbalance. Russia has a big demographics issue, so their loss of life might not be good. Or so loss of life gets so high, it might reverse the fertility rate and gets postive again.
 
How much time you got?
In inflationary times with heavy trade imbalances where money value is highly volatile, commodities are king and Russia is king of commodities.
Outside of the west, no one is doing sanctions against Russia. So while across the whole word money is getting less valuable, their commodities increase and can easily be sold to non western states. The sanctions are directly tied to the price increase of those commodities and Russia can just sell them somewhere else. So the sanctions are directly responsible for making sure Russia gets more money for their Oil, Gas, Potash and other stuff. Oh and the West is still buying the stuff, too.

Making money is always good. Bad for the West of course, because they want the war to end, but as always with the "smart west" they fuck up and do stuff having the opposite effect of the desired outcome. (Like printing trillions so the market doesn't crash during corona - yeah it will just crash 2 years later when inflation kicks in and supply / demand imbalance shifts in the opposite direction).
The sanctions directly fund Russia's war chest.

The West is still buying commodities, but at a reduced rate. But let's focus on one shall we? Shall we take oil? Even with the increase in imports from India and China (your non-Western states) this does not balance out the loss of that oil from EU states that plan to pull out between 90-100% by the end of the year. In fact, just taking out Germany and Holland and including the increase for China and India, Russia is running at a deficit. That doesn't take into account any other countries, nor does it take into account the amount of oil Russia is now selling these non-Western countries for that money. The only way Russia gets richer is if nothing changes, but things are changing, so you need to take that into account.


So was that the example of sanctions directly making Russia richer? A term I use to define increasing wealth, which isn't happening here, but maybe you have a different definition.

Them is the Russian people. Sure the government and not ordinary people gets this money, but at the end of the day, a country, state or government is just their people.
And of course it sucks they waste money a a stupid war, but at the end of the day it might even be a net positive for Russia if you don't look at loss of life, on a personal level. On a macro level, loss of life is even mostly positive unless you get to a point of bad imbalance. Russia has a big demographics issue, so their loss of life might not be good. Or so loss of life gets so high, it might reverse the fertility rate and gets postive again.

And this is where you contradict yourself more. If "not ordinary people" gets this money, then you can't say "them" is the "Russian people". Because it's obviously not, even by your definition. So you are saying good for the government for getting this money, not "Russian people". At least support of the Russian government is something here.
 

Tams

Member
How much time you got?
In inflationary times with heavy trade imbalances where money value is highly volatile, commodities are king and Russia is king of commodities.
Outside of the west, no one is doing sanctions against Russia. So while across the whole word money is getting less valuable, their commodities increase and can easily be sold to non western states. The sanctions are directly tied to the price increase of those commodities and Russia can just sell them somewhere else. So the sanctions are directly responsible for making sure Russia gets more money for their Oil, Gas, Potash and other stuff. Oh and the West is still buying the stuff, too.

Making money is always good. Bad for the West of course, because they want the war to end, but as always with the "smart west" they fuck up and do stuff having the opposite effect of the desired outcome. (Like printing trillions so the market doesn't crash during corona - yeah it will just crash 2 years later when inflation kicks in and supply / demand imbalance shifts in the opposite direction).
The sanctions directly fund Russia's war chest.

Them is the Russian people. Sure the government and not ordinary people gets this money, but at the end of the day, a country, state or government is just their people.
And of course it sucks they waste money a a stupid war, but at the end of the day it might even be a net positive for Russia if you don't look at loss of life, on a personal level. On a macro level, loss of life is even mostly positive unless you get to a point of bad imbalance. Russia has a big demographics issue, so their loss of life might not be good. Or so loss of life gets so high, it might reverse the fertility rate and gets postive again.
You need to see a psychiatrist to find out where your empathy and morality went.
 
Incredible... these sanctions continue to do nothing.

Mcdonalds basically handed Russia a fast food company on a golden plate. Instead of now making money off Russia, Russia gets to keep all the money within. Mcdonalds basically just trained all the employees, gave them months of unemployment, the building, the supply chains and know how.


This is one shop that's working as of now, lets see how things go once some machines start to break down, supply chains stop etc.
Same way they own a Renault car plant now, worth nothing when all the machines are programmed to put Renault cars together, not some Russian Lada.

It's a temporary gain. Outside investment is gone and that was really important for Russia. All these Mac Russia will be worn out, people will steal / sell half the interior the same way they did with their military equipment. In a year non of it will be in working order.
 

Karlinel

Banned
Russia is holding up better than expected by sheer number of sub-human scum, I mean “soldiers” and soviet artillery. I’ve never wanted so much a country erradicated in my life. Motherfuckers only wanting to rape and steal, without even the know-how to exploit the stolen land…
 

FunkMiller

Banned
The people criticizing the purchase of oil would all revolt if the power went out. Energy is vital to a functioning society.

If Germany cut off its oil and gas from Russia, it would plunge the country into recession.

And nothing else. No power would go off. Germany would just be poorer.

Germany (or at least the German government) has decided this is not worth doing to save Ukraine.
 
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zeomax

Member
The people criticizing the purchase of oil would all revolt if the power went out. Energy is vital to a functioning society.
Sadly many people don't understand this. They think you only need snap your finger and bam Europe has an alternative to russian gas/oil.

Germany (or at least the German government) has decided this is not worth doing to save Ukraine.
And Germany is the only one who can save Ukraine?
 
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FunkMiller

Banned
And Germany is the only one who can save Ukraine?

No. But they did promise ‘never again’ after they committed countless war atrocities themselves, so you’d think they’d be a bit more willing to sacrifice their large economy to save lives - especially considering they were warned not to get into bed with Russia repeatedly.
 
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TwinB242

Member
There was some analysis/study that said the average German citizen would have to pay about an extra $1000 this year if Germany suddenly stopped their Russian energy imports. I can't vouch for the accuracy of that but if it is accurate then thats actually a small price to pay to cripple Russia's war machine.
 
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Gp1

Member

Ukraine Situation Report: More HIMARS On The Way Once Ukraine Shows It Can Use Them In Combat

Ukrainian troops are two weeks into a three-week HIMARS training course before the guided rocket launchers go to the frontlines.​

Colin Kahl, U.S. Under Secretary of Defense for Policy, called the first four HIMARS systems promised to Ukraine, along with 227mm Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS) rockets they'll be supplied with, an “initial tranche. It is “absolutely fair” to characterize the long-range rocket artillery systems as the first of many the U.S. will send to Ukraine’s aid, Kahl said at the Center For A New American Security (CNAS) think tank's National Security Conference in Washington, D.C.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...-once-ukraine-shows-it-can-use-them-in-combat
 

zeomax

Member
There was some analysis/study that said the average German citizen would have to pay about an extra $1000 this year if Germany suddenly stopped their Russian energy imports.
1000€ lol. It has already tripled and will probably triple again or even more if they cut the oil.

This is exactly what Putin wants to destabilize the entire EU. But because his genius master plan gone so badly wrong he is in a weird situation where he can't just pull the plug. He wants to destabilize but also needs the money from Europe right now more than ever.
 
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zeomax

Member
so you’d think they’d be a bit more willing to sacrifice their large economy to save lives - especially considering they were warned not to get into bed with Russia repeatedly.
Yes they made mistakes. So you are now expecting Germany should throw away their entire economy because some politicians made a mistake?
 
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