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[SuperMattyFighter2T]

Nobody is really saying to take the loop and keep him the same, it would just seem pretty bad to keep a known infinite in the game after a balance update. Even if it's hard to land and may not work on everyone, it's still something that fundamentally should not be in the game.

Also, was he actually bottom tier without it? I thought Tager was either way.

Tager is low tier also. However, Carl has the lowest hp in the game, horrible guard libra, a horrible dash (more like a skip), and not that great of normals... His learning curve is easily the highest in the game, and without that knowledge his damage potential is shit. I'd put Carl right below Tager without the throw loop. Even with the throw loop Carl is only high tier in an expert's hand. Other characters like Nu and Arakune need a look at before time is ever wasted on Carl.

 

[SolarPowered]

Only thing I think that needs some look at with Jin is how a player breaks out of ice and how long the duration is if they don't. It's annoying how many high damage BLACK BEAT combos he has off of freezing.

Noel needs tweaking!? LOL WHAT? Seriously!? If you can't beat a scrub spamming drive you have problems. Go into training and practicing blocking that shit. Only thing you really need to know is 2D is an overheard, and I think 6D hits low... Learn to block that shit and then punish. Besides, any decent Noel player is finishing off their combos with drive. Not starting with drive, because that will get them punished. Hell, only combo I start off with drive is 2D, 28D, Rapid Cancel, 66, 6C[B+C] x2, BnB Drive combo... And that can easily be blocked if you know it starts with an overhead.

I would like to think people wanting changes main the character themselves or have a decent knowledge off all the matchups... But it's obvious people don't.

I kind of expanded on my ideas in the previous post with grifter...maybe combinations of nerfs, and buffs. It is already being talked about elsewhere. Minus this, and plus that=a better noel or tager.

Edit:
You kinda made a bold claim at the scrub part. I'm pretty sure you play on PSN so we can't go at it...oh well.:lol

 

[SolarPowered]

Can they patch arcade cabinets, I wonder? The game should probably remain as universally similar as possible, although now that Europe gets new characters that kind of botches that notion.

I'm sure BlazBlue will remain popular no matter what, but I'd hate to see the meta-game turn into Carl vs. Carl a year or so down the road. :\

I'm pretty sure they can. I believe they use the arcades as a testing ground before worldwide console release.

 

[SuperMattyFighter2T]

I kind of expanded on my ideas in the next post...maybe combinations of nerfs, and buffs. It is already being talked about elsewhere. Minus this, and plus that=a better noel or tager.

Edit:
You kinda made a bold claim at the scrub part. I'm pretty sure you play on PSN so we can't go at it...oh well.:lol

How did I make a bold claim? Scrubs spam drive with Noel. People who are at least semi-good with Noel don't, because it will get them punished against decent comp.

I have BB on both 360 and PS3.

 

[SolarPowered]

How did I make a bold claim? Scrubs spam drive with Noel. People who are at least semi-good with Noel don't, because it will get them punished against decent comp.

The assertion (very loose assertion mind you, aint tryin' to start a conflict :lol )that I can't beat scrubs which I can. Her drive is also a combo that works with normals, and not all characters have that advantage. At least not in such a smooth fashion.

I have BB on both 360 and PS3.

I see...

 

[DY_nasty]

Nu needs a nerf? She's already got a glass chin as it is.

Hakumen getting a buff at all would scare the shit out of me though. If he gets any faster or counters any quicker than he becomes a juggernaut.

 

[Papercuts]

Nu needs a nerf? She's already got a glass chin as it is.

Hakumen getting a buff at all would scare the shit out of me though. If he gets any faster or counters any quicker than he becomes a juggernaut.

Tweaking this game in general is going to be hard. It could be easy to buff Hakumen or Tager into tier topping beasts, and Nu/Arakune/Rachel nerfs could make them useless. Hopefully any upcoming balance tweaks get a lot of thought put into it.

 

[autobzooty]

How about this... I want you to main Carl for the next month. See if you can get the throw loop down in training, along with all of the setups (HARD), and other Nirvana/Carl combos you'll need to know to survive. Then we'll see how well you can actually put that to use in actual matches against good players. It isn't easy. I have a feeling if you have actually spent any time with Carl you would see the situation in a different light.

Take it easy, I'm just a scrub trying to learn the game by talking with the big dogs! Don't shoot!

Do fighting games usually get game balancing patches after release? It's been my experience that they don't, but my experience isn't abundantly vast.


As for Nu being top tier, I'd say the main problem is that she's a combo machine and that he combos are very easy to start. It's gonna be hard to nerf/buff some of these characters without fundamentally changing the way they play, but for everyone's sake, I hope Aksys finds a way to make it happen.

 

[xero273]

Do fighting games usually get game balancing patches after release? It's been my experience that they don't, but my experience isn't abundantly vast.

they do.

 

[SuperMattyFighter2T]

Take it easy, I'm just a scrub trying to learn the game by talking with the big dogs! Don't shoot!

Do fighting games usually get game balancing patches after release? It's been my experience that they don't, but my experience isn't abundantly vast.


As for Nu being top tier, I'd say the main problem is that she's a combo machine and that he combos are very easy to start. It's gonna be hard to nerf/buff some of these characters without fundamentally changing the way they play, but for everyone's sake, I hope Aksys finds a way to make it happen.

Not shooting lol. I just don't think people really understand how hard of a character Carl is to play, and what the throw loop really means to him.

As for Nu... I hope they don't nerf her too bad. People want a meter on her drive and other ridiculous shit, but I wouldn't change her drive at all. I think her normals are still too good though. When I do actually get in a lot of the time I will get stuffed by 2C or I believe 6C (I don't play her).. I'd slow down the startup on a few normals and not touch the drive.

And yeah, fighters get updates/patches in arcades all of the time, which usually meant a new release for consoles. That should change with XBL and PSN now though.

 

[DY_nasty]

Not shooting lol. I just don't think people really understand how hard of a character Carl is to play, and what the throw loop really means to him.

As for Nu... I hope they don't nerf her too bad. People want a meter on her drive and other ridiculous shit, but I wouldn't change her drive at all. I think her normals are still too good though. When I do actually get in a lot of the time I will get stuffed by 2C or I believe 6C (I don't play her).. I'd slow down the startup on a few normals and not touch the drive.

And yeah, fighters get updates/patches in arcades all of the time, which usually meant a new release for consoles. That should change with XBL and PSN now though.

I'd actually be cool with that for Nu as long as they made the gravity well actually slow down the ice sleds.

 

[autobzooty]

Yeah, slower startups for Nu would make things more fair, I think.

Also, I'm pretty sure that gravity wells DO slow down ice sleds (if I'm thinking of what you're thinking of), but it doesn't make a huge difference because the thing is still coming at you fairly quickly and it's not gonna stop till it gets there.

Again, I'm a scrub, but I learn a lot from talking to people who know what they're doing. :lol

 

[DY_nasty]

Maybe I should be more clear, I'm cool with longer startups for normals, but only in exchange for faster gravity well startup

 

[autobzooty]

Maybe I should be more clear, I'm cool with longer startups for normals, but only in exchange for faster gravity well startup

That might be good, but I've seen skilled Nu players set up a close range gravity well mid combo to continue on for massive damage. Whether or not they can do that because they are skilled or because Nu is overpowered is up for debate.

 

[DY_nasty]

That might be good, but I've seen skilled Nu players set up a close range gravity well mid combo to continue on for massive damage. Whether or not they can do that because they are skilled or because Nu is overpowered is up for debate.

Its easy to do mid-combo, but by itself its a bitch to use. Its slow and leaves you open for twice as long when used by itself.

 

[FoxSpirit]

You play Nu. You can request nothing.

Neither Arakune nor Rachel. I hope my poor Rachel will get through this well and not suddenly become even more complex to play >.<

 

[Papercuts]

Its easy to do mid-combo, but by itself its a bitch to use. Its slow and leaves you open for twice as long when used by itself.

Not everything is meant to be used by itself. It is such a dick move when a Nu does that to me though, I'm Tager already, don't make me even slower! :lol

 

[DY_nasty]

Wow, of all characters I've never even thought of using the well on a Tager.

I really just want unlimited versions of all the characters more than anything else though.

 

[Teknopathetic]

Most of the top 3's matchups are fairly tight 5-5/6-4. People exaggerate Nu's power because people seem to remember being beaten from a full screen away worse than getting wrecked in the face.

Bring the other chars up, don't bring other chars down. And realistically, the only people who are really, really, really hurting are Tager, Hakumen, and to some extent, Carl. Dramatic changes are not the key to balance. Furthermore, no matter what, somebody's gotta be bottom tier and somebody's going to be top, that's just the way it goes.

 

[Grifter]

Keep in mind that singular changes don't tend to happen. They don't just go in and remove Carl's infinite and nu's health and say that's that. If the patch thing is real, I'd expect the mini-GGXX #R treatment. #R basically perfected what they were going for in the mega-successful GGXX before a true revamp of play styles in Slash.

GGXX had a ton of BS that somehow managed to balance itself out really well while #R improved and added to the game, removed truly exploitable BS, kept or toned down lesser BS that made the game fun, toned down overused moves, and buffed underused moves with an eye towards what made matchups work or not work. They brought kind of a VF quality in that good players can use a character in very different ways and succeed.

 

[autobzooty]

Bring the other chars up, don't bring other chars down.

This makes the most sense.


Also, are their rumors that this patch might actually be in the pipeline, or is it just the players thinking wishfully?

 

[Grifter]

this been posted? i agree with everything hitler says here (bb related):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0AZAGBaLSo

 

[SolarPowered]

this been posted? i agree with everything hitler says here (bb related):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0AZAGBaLSo

I've seen that before. My favorite parts were these...
"If you play SF4, 3rd strike, or marvel leave now"
"Do I look like the kind of hipster idiot who owns a PS3!?"

:lol :lol :lol

 

[SolarPowered]

Keep in mind that singular changes don't tend to happen. They don't just go in and remove Carl's infinite and nu's health and say that's that. If the patch thing is real, I'd expect the mini-GGXX #R treatment. #R basically perfected what they were going for in the mega-successful GGXX before a true revamp of play styles in Slash.

GGXX had a ton of BS that somehow managed to balance itself out really well while #R improved and added to the game, removed truly exploitable BS, kept or toned down lesser BS that made the game fun, toned down overused moves, and buffed underused moves with an eye towards what made matchups work or not work. They brought kind of a VF quality in that good players can use a character in very different ways and succeed.

Huge game changing updates are most likely going to made in the next iteration of the series, but I think it shouldn't be too hard to mix things up, and buff a few characters. Noel will do good to have some more mid-range stuff being a gun user, so that she isn't relegated to the mid-tier. All Bang needs for me is a half decent poke, and three more nails which would make getting up close, and personal alot easier. He is seriously perfect for me besides those little things.

People actually came up with some interesting ideas for Arakune's curse cloud too. A drive bar similar too Rachel's silpheed, and carl's Nirvana gauge would punish curse cloud spamming so that it doesn't get one sided with that bug trap. A curse cloud block was discussed as well seeing as he still has infinite bug attacks to trap you anyway. A poke/anti air buff for tager is also being talked about so that he gets a little more leverage against the mix up people.

I think we all got started a bit rough, but I think we are going in a nice direction now. A bit of speculation could spark some interesting discussion, and aksys might even listen. This is the fighting game genre so our opinions are more likely to be heard even if unlikely.

Edit:
Ragna could also use more belts. One can never have enough belts!

 

[Steaks]

Keep in mind that singular changes don't tend to happen. They don't just go in and remove Carl's infinite and nu's health and say that's that. If the patch thing is real, I'd expect the mini-GGXX #R treatment. #R basically perfected what they were going for in the mega-successful GGXX before a true revamp of play styles in Slash.

GGXX had a ton of BS that somehow managed to balance itself out really well while #R improved and added to the game, removed truly exploitable BS, kept or toned down lesser BS that made the game fun, toned down overused moves, and buffed underused moves with an eye towards what made matchups work or not work. They brought kind of a VF quality in that good players can use a character in very different ways and succeed.

#R still wasn't incredibly well balanced, sadly.

Sure as hell was still the best game at the time though. BITE LOOOOOOOOOPS.

 

[Ken Masters]

to see the true ending, do you need to get 100% with every character in story mode?

 

[SolarPowered]

to see the true ending, do you need to get 100% with every character in story mode?

I think you only need to get Ragna's 100%. Google is your best friend on this one dude.

 

[FoxSpirit]

to see the true ending, do you need to get 100% with every character in story mode?

No, AFAIK you just need to beat the story mode once with every character (and get the clear ending, not the alternate truth one), then with Hakumen and Nu and then you can select a "true ending" part.

Also, gravity well does effect icecar, I just played.

 

[ultim8p00]

The assertion (very loose assertion mind you, aint tryin' to start a conflict :lol )that I can't beat scrubs which I can. Her drive is also a combo that works with normals, and not all characters have that advantage. At least not in such a smooth fashion.

I see...

Are you saying that Noel can combo into her drive from normals? Because that's not true. None of Noel's drives work with normals. None.

That would make her completely broken. She already has a super fast 5A.

 

[SolarPowered]

Are you saying that Noel can combo into her drive from normals? Because that's not true. None of Noel's drives work with normals. None.

That would make her completely broken. She already has a super fast 5A.

I was working off of memory, but I guess I'm wrong.

Edit:

Apparently she has at least 7 normal to drive combos. They aren't devastating though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAsayt9dV6Y

 

[Teknopathetic]

"Are you saying that Noel can combo into her drive from normals? Because that's not true. None of Noel's drives work with normals. None.

That would make her completely broken. She already has a super fast 5A."


Not a noel player, but, can't she combo into forward+C (B+C cancel) and then go into her drive after that?

 

[Pimpbaa]

No, AFAIK you just need to beat the story mode once with every character (and get the clear ending, not the alternate truth one), then with Hakumen and Nu and then you can select a "true ending" part.

Also, gravity well does effect icecar, I just played.

All I had to do was just beat the story mode with every character (most with alternate truth).

 

[PBalfredo]

So I've been playing this game for couple of weeks and gotten semi-decent at it. I main Rachael and sub No-Face Arakune. I generally have fun playing online, but lately I've just been running into Jin and Jin all the time. Since my rank currently is 11, it means the grand majority of like-leveled Jins subscribe to the ice car -> mash C newbie combo. And it's maddeningly effective! How do I effectively punish that move? In any other fighting game ever made, blocking an opponent's charge move means handing them a ticket to Getyoassthrownville, but with Jin that second hit seems to put me just out of range of a safe poke while still within range of his C spam. Help please!

 

[Grifter]

with rachel, block the car and fork him (6b), that should counter hit and you get to run in for your best combo.

noel can combo into drive as a juggle or from counter.

 

[Papercuts]

So I've been playing this game for couple of weeks and gotten semi-decent at it. I main Rachael and sub No-Face Arakune. I generally have fun playing online, but lately I've just been running into Jin and Jin all the time. Since my rank currently is 11, it means the grand majority of like-leveled Jins subscribe to the ice car -> mash C newbie combo. And it's maddeningly effective! How do I effectively punish that move? In any other fighting game ever made, blocking an opponent's charge move means handing them a ticket to Getyoassthrownville, but with Jin that second hit seems to put me just out of range of a safe poke while still within range of his C spam. Help please!

Are you barrier blocking? Don't. Normal blocking won't push him back, I can't really say what to follow up with since I don't know much about Rachel but he should stay in reach for you to punish.

 

[Prototype-03]

you don't need the fork. Instant block the 2nd hit from the ice car and 5b into 5cdc into 236b, 22a (or dd).

Do that couple of times, and most people won't do random ice cars

 

[ultim8p00]

"Are you saying that Noel can combo into her drive from normals? Because that's not true. None of Noel's drives work with normals. None.

That would make her completely broken. She already has a super fast 5A."


Not a noel player, but, can't she combo into forward+C (B+C cancel) and then go into her drive after that?

Only if you are juggling the opponent. Usually you set that combo up by doing either 6A,6C, then BC cancel. Or you can get them off the ground with 2B,6C. Then, you have to use a specific drive sequence, not just mash. Good Noel players always use 5D,4C,6D,4C,6D,4C,28D (standing on the left) as it causes so much damage, but I can never get the spacing right for it to connect. I personally use 5A,6B,5B,28D because it doesn't rely on spacing and it's untechable while doing a fair bit of damage.

So I've been playing this game for couple of weeks and gotten semi-decent at it. I main Rachael and sub No-Face Arakune. I generally have fun playing online, but lately I've just been running into Jin and Jin all the time. Since my rank currently is 11, it means the grand majority of like-leveled Jins subscribe to the ice car -> mash C newbie combo. And it's maddeningly effective! How do I effectively punish that move? In any other fighting game ever made, blocking an opponent's charge move means handing them a ticket to Getyoassthrownville, but with Jin that second hit seems to put me just out of range of a safe poke while still within range of his C spam. Help please!

Block the first hit, instant block the second hit. You recover faster. Punish

 

[FoxSpirit]

Only if you are juggling the opponent. Usually you set that combo up by doing either 6A,6C, then BC cancel. Or you can get them off the ground with 2B,6C. Then, you have to use a specific drive sequence, not just mash. Good Noel players always use 5D,4C,6D,4C,6D,4C,28D (standing on the left) as it causes so much damage, but I can never get the spacing right for it to connect. I personally use 5A,6B,5B,28D because it doesn't rely on spacing and it's untechable while doing a fair bit of damage.



Block the first hit, instant block the second hit. You recover faster. Punish

Often enough you can just use B with Rachel to punish without even instant blocking. That thing has good reach.

My tip: go into practice, set Jin dummy to "block all" and record an icecar. Stop the record mid animation. When you playback it then Jin will do an icecar and then block as soon as possible. Or record icecar->mash C and see what you find.
You should normally punish during the 2nd icecar hit. Alternatively, barrier guard "mash C" and throw him a proceticle if you want to mix it up.

Practice that, it's pretty easy and stops people doing random icecars.

 

[Ken Masters]

I was facing a Carl online and I got stuck between him and his sister (or whatever that thing is) and I just couldn't get out of it with Jin. Any pointers?

 

[DY_nasty]

I was facing a Carl online and I got stuck between him and his sister (or whatever that thing is) and I just couldn't get out of it with Jin. Any pointers?

You got clap-trapped?

 

[Heretic Kazuma]

I was facing a Carl online and I got stuck between him and his sister (or whatever that thing is) and I just couldn't get out of it with Jin. Any pointers?

If you're sandwiched, barrier block to push him away, try to jump out if their pressure has a gap, or—since you're Jin—instant block one of the attack strings and go into his C uppercut.

If you're referring to the clap loop, burst if the Carl uses 3C (the move where he slides into your shins); kiss 50%–100% of your life good-bye if you don't. Otherwise, you just need to know when to throw escape: different timings on the throw loop have "holes" where you can escape—either with an early escape+air dash away from Nirvana, or a really late escape to avoid her shockwave altogether. Good Carl-players, however, will close that window...

 

[MelloBoy]

So I've been playing this game for couple of weeks and gotten semi-decent at it. I main Rachael and sub No-Face Arakune. I generally have fun playing online, but lately I've just been running into Jin and Jin all the time. Since my rank currently is 11, it means the grand majority of like-leveled Jins subscribe to the ice car -> mash C newbie combo. And it's maddeningly effective! How do I effectively punish that move? In any other fighting game ever made, blocking an opponent's charge move means handing them a ticket to Getyoassthrownville, but with Jin that second hit seems to put me just out of range of a safe poke while still within range of his C spam. Help please!

have a pumpkin out and use it to your advantage?
i find that for icecar spammers, 214B -> 214A6D -> 3(hold)C allows me to get the upper hand and start applying pressure...alot of folks, including higher levels, seem to like to do an icecar as i'm following up the pumpkin with a frog w/o realizing that rachel can wind during 214A...a lot don't do a low block afterwards either so it works out pretty nicely in a many cases.

 

[AksysNutSack]

That was pretty legit folks, I wanna thank everyone that participated. Those that participated should check their email soon. We got gifts going to everyone that participated. Meantime, practice up, next round will happen very soon. We wanna keep the community active and fun. So keep your skillz up as we plan to bring in special guest devs to play against everyone, such as Daisuke Ishiwatari, Mori, the voice actors, and who knows maybe one day you'll see something special that'll make you jump back on the hype train. Either way, we plan to keep this up for everyone! If you already submitted an entry, don't worry, we ain't deleting them! We're just gonna go through them and randomly pick the next 20 participants for the next battle royal session.

And yes...the next sessions will be called Aksys Games "Its The REMATCH!" Competition and winner gets BB Sh*t!


Holla Back!

 

[FiRez]

This is probably the first 2D fighter that I could enjoy. I main Jin and so far have won half the online battles using him, I was trying to use Ragna and Taokaka too but I just couldn't beat nu-13 with them , my only grip is that the story mode videos are just glorified stills I thought something was wrong with my disc when I hear voices and no one was moving their mouths in the story mode opening.

btw is me or the sprites looks better on SDTV?
I swear the characters looks more pixelated on my LCD (using HDMI) than my 27" CRT set (using component), I'm playing the x360 version

 

[momolicious]

Often enough you can just use B with Rachel to punish without even instant blocking. That thing has good reach.

My tip: go into practice, set Jin dummy to "block all" and record an icecar. Stop the record mid animation. When you playback it then Jin will do an icecar and then block as soon as possible. Or record icecar->mash C and see what you find.
You should normally punish during the 2nd icecar hit. Alternatively, barrier guard "mash C" and throw him a proceticle if you want to mix it up.

Practice that, it's pretty easy and stops people doing random icecars.

It is hard to do this with even slight input lag online though

 

[Prototype-03]

I do it online all the time. I had a level 34 Jin yesterday night who kept doing it and got punished. I don't understand how they don't learn to not do ice cars.

 

[FoxSpirit]

It is hard to do this with even slight input lag online though

The regular block straight into B is not hard, unless you had the slideshow in syncing, then the lag's too bad.
But everything else and this works well, just make use of you 5 frame advance input window.

edit: duh, completely missed Prototype-03's post >.<

 

[KanedaGS]

Just a heads up... The DLC for the PS3 version is out today. That is all.

 

[Darkman M]

what kind of dlc? im on 360 though.

 

[Pimpbaa]

Just a heads up... The DLC for the PS3 version is out today. That is all.

2 bucks for 4 colors sets for 4 characters. That makes me sick to my stomach.