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[FieryBalrog]

I guess there isn't a single game that is unanimously liked by everyone. Usually, the high-rated games' seem to get torn apart a lot more, e.g. like how GTA 4 is called the worst GTA game ever but is sitting pretty at 98 on Metacritic. Yes, playing it was like watching paint dry, but it did some incredible things, so it deserved a pretty high score.

GTA IV is a case of the Bioshock effect. People rave about it as the Second Coming for 2 months (or in GTA IV's case, like a month) and when the party ends and the beer goggles wear off, the backlash begins.

This happened a lot towards the beginning of this gen as people were still starstruck by HD and more prone to overreacting.

 

[MrOogieBoogie]

GTA IV is a case of the Bioshock effect. People rave about it as the Second Coming for 2 months (or in GTA IV's case, like a month) and when the party ends and the beer goggles wear off, the backlash begins.

This happened a lot towards the beginning of this gen as people were still starstruck by HD and more prone to overreacting.

BioShock effect? Um, Grand Theft Auto IV is far more lambasted in hindsight than BioShock ever was. Grand Theft Auto IV is up there with Twilight Princess in terms of undeserved hate by Internet forum dwellers.

 

[FieryBalrog]

BioShock effect? Um, Grand Theft Auto IV is far more lambasted in hindsight than BioShock ever was. Grand Theft Auto IV is up there with Twilight Princess in terms of undeserved hate by Internet forum dwellers.

Bioshock gets it a lot, too. Both reviewers and people on GAF were practically making love to it when it was released. Now, at least in my experience, you'll be hard pressed to find someone put it in their top 5 this generation, let alone all time.

I dunno, maybe I read snobby PC gamers too much but after the shine wore off it definitely got a lot of "lol, they dumbed down System Shock 2 for consoles".

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Point me to em, I'll give em a piece of my mind!!

lol I'll pay that.

 

[Ezduo]

Bioshock gets it a lot, too. Both reviewers and people on GAF were practically making love to it when it was released. Now, at least in my experience, you'll be hard pressed to find someone put it in their top 5 this generation, let alone all time.

I dunno, maybe I read snobby PC gamers too much but after the shine wore off it definitely got a lot of "lol, they dumbed down System Shock 2 for consoles".

You sure they just aren't shitting on the sequel?

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

He started it!

You guys can say what you want. Every fanbase has a game they champion like its the greatest thing ever, Nintendo has SMG, Xbox has Halo, and Sony has Uncharted 2. Let them have their cake.

Except none of those games are revolutionary, except maybe Halo. Although Halo was only really revolutionary in terms of setting off FPS as the most popular genre on consoles.

 

[Aeana]

If there are people like this that exist, than there must be the opposite end of the spectrum as well. People who saw the stumbling PS3 in 2006 and started a hate train. Where ever a PS3 exclusive is spoken about, they are there waiting to shit on it. Ever notice how every big-semi big ps3 exclusive has at least a few very vocal haters that will turn up in every thread where its mentioned? Can't say the same for other platforms.

Oh you can absolutely say that about other platforms.
As someone who is completely impartial to any particular platform, it's absolutely embarrassing to go into a thread for an exclusive on any platform - PC included. Loyalists are the same in every camp. It's why I don't really get into discussions like that because it just gives me a headache.

 

[Lion Heart]

Except none of those games are revolutionary, except maybe Halo. Although Halo was only really revolutionary in terms of setting off FPS as the most popular genre on consoles.

I didn't say there were, but they are the most praised games for each system (I think).

 

[MrOogieBoogie]

Bioshock gets it a lot, too. Both reviewers and people on GAF were practically making love to it when it was released. Now, at least in my experience, you'll be hard pressed to find someone put it in their top 5 this generation, let alone all time.

I dunno, maybe I read snobby PC gamers too much but after the shine wore off it definitely got a lot of "lol, they dumbed down System Shock 2 for consoles".

I don't know, I still think BioShock is highly regarded (and deservedly so). At least for me, it's still this generation's top game. (And I'm a huge System Shock fan--as you can tell by the icon--so don't give me that "but it's a dumbed-down Shock!" bull.)

 

[TheExplodingHead]

I fail to see how wave-after-wave of generic enemies (and obvious "upgraded enemies"), a shooting mechanic/gameplay that's nowhere near best in class, zero technical gameplay depth and little strategic depth, predictable story, and connect the dots mindless climbing/jumping equals "revolutionary". Uncharted as a game is anything but revolutionary, is anything it's derivative to a fault and to an advantage. But at least it looks pretty.

Full disclosure if you haven't already noticed, I'm not a big fan of Uncharted...

 

[FieryBalrog]

I didn't say there were, but they are the most praised games for each system (I think).

Halo, this generation?

 

[RooMHM]

It's this kind of hyperbole, that I consistently hear on Gaf, that makes me roll my eyes any time I hear any praise for this series.

It's like PS3 trumpeters in 2007, looking for a champion on their system of choice, started following the Kittonwy movement by putting an average game up on a pedestal, and then when the second one turned out to be better than average, the next logical step was to treat it like the second coming of Jesus in video game form.

I don't know if it has a link with PS3 sales but I fully agree with you. If a game is any good it's the best ever in its genre. It's like people don't know what was made before... no wonder we get less quality?

 

[Finaika]

I fail to see how wave-after-wave of generic enemies (and obvious "upgraded enemies"), a shooting mechanic/gameplay that's nowhere near best in class, zero technical gameplay depth and little strategic depth, predictable story, and connect the dots mindless climbing/jumping equals "revolutionary". Uncharted as a game is anything but revolutionary, is anything it's derivative to a fault and to an advantage. But at least it looks pretty.

Full disclosure if you haven't already noticed, I'm not a big fan of Uncharted...

I think the op meant was Uncharted's cut scenes were revolutionary.

 

[Extra Sauce]

Really? This is always said and I always wonder why.

You must be quite special.

I mean, which part of him being a really intelligent treasure hunter who has constantly been involved in dangerous events, made several infamous enemies, fought pirates, mercenaries, stolen artifacts, infiltrated various guarded compounds, made quite the name for himself in his line of work, and has a mentor who was also apparently quite good as a treasure hunter himself, makes him seem like an everyman to people?

At what point in either of the two Uncharted games is Drake portrayed as an everyman? Do they miss these glaring facts about the kind of person he is?

Here, I'll help people out with this.

An everyman is an ordinary person placed in extraordinary circumstances. The idea behind this concept is for audiences to be able to imagine themselves in the same position because they wouldn't need any extra skills to cope in the same position. Hence the term. Everyman.

Now unless people these days happen to be great at research, are well versed in historic artifacts and documents, understand and recognise different ancient texts, know how to use a gun really well, and also are fit enough to climb ridiculous places with their bare hands, then Drake isn't really an everyman for them.

I mean, do you happen to be able to do those things? Or does the average person in your city or country have those skills? Maybe that's why you think he's an everyman. I'm certainly in awe of you, if that's the case.

Not being a complete tosser, having an attitude that people can somewhat relate to, and being quite likeable certainly doesn't make you an everyman. And at least here, in the West, we wouldn't consider anything ordinary about Nathan Drake apart from how he dresses.

The problem is not that he's a killer, the problem is the number of people he kills.

You see, it's a bit of a catch-22 because the more well-crafted a character is via high-quality acting, animation and dialogue, the more believable he becomes, the more some of the "game" elements start to stick out like a sore thumb.

If John McLane kills 15 guys over the course of a movie, it's badass. But if he kills 400 guys, it starts to feel weird. That weird feeling is what people are talking about. By getting closer than ever to a Hollywood-quality presentation, developers have invented a new problem; a new kind of "uncanny valley" if you will.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

I think the op meant was Uncharted's cut scenes were revolutionary.

But they weren't. They're simply a product of better tech.

That doesn't strike me as revolutionary at all.

 

[Boss Doggie]

I think the op meant was Uncharted's cut scenes were revolutionary.

Well now.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Bioshock gets it a lot, too. Both reviewers and people on GAF were practically making love to it when it was released. Now, at least in my experience, you'll be hard pressed to find someone put it in their top 5 this generation, let alone all time.

I dunno, maybe I read snobby PC gamers too much but after the shine wore off it definitely got a lot of "lol, they dumbed down System Shock 2 for consoles".

We have a saying where I'm from: "if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, fuck me it's probably a duck."

 

[TheExplodingHead]

I think the op meant was Uncharted's cut scenes were revolutionary.

See there's the problem I was getting at with the OP, I don't play games for cutscenes. I play games for games, cutscenes are there to add weight and mesh the experience, not be the "revolutionary aspect". If it's cutscenes OP is waving a banner suggesting a revolution in acting (which it isn't, especially when the script is summer flick drivel), than I think quite frankly he's praising the wrong things. But that's just me.

 

[Boss Doggie]

See there's the problem I was getting at with the OP, I don't play games for cutscenes. I play games for games, cutscenes are there to add weight and mesh the experience, not be the "revolutionary aspect". If it's cutscenes OP is waving a banner suggesting a revolution in acting (which it isn't, especially when the script is summer flick drivel), than I think quite frankly he's praising the wrong things. But that's just me.

This is my prospect too.

 

[LightOfTruth]

was HL2 revolutionary?

 

[LightOfTruth]

See there's the problem I was getting at with the OP, I don't play games for cutscenes. I play games for games, cutscenes are there to add weight and mesh the experience, not be the "revolutionary aspect". If it's cutscenes OP is waving a banner suggesting a revolution in acting (which it isn't, especially when the script is summer flick drivel), than I think quite frankly he's praising the wrong things. But that's just me.

Uncharted is all about making what you would normally see in cutscenes and have that be gameplay. Regardless, cut scenes are a part of games. OP is asking if you think Uncharted revolutionized that aspect of video games. I think whether he is praising the 'right' or 'wrong' thing doesnt really matter.

Edit: not in this discussion, of course

 

[klee123]

I'm a fan of the series, but really OP is just asking to be trolled by the legions of Nintendo and MS fanboys who would more than love to give the series shit.

 

[Red]

Except none of those games are revolutionary, except maybe Halo. Although Halo was only really revolutionary in terms of setting off FPS as the most popular genre on consoles.

SMG's focus on spherical worlds lends itself to quite a few revolutions.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Uncharted is all about making what you would normally see in cutscenes and have that be gameplay.

And, lest anyone forget, Half-Life did that in 1998, and again in 2004. It's not unique, revolutionary, or evolutionary.

 

[Red]

And, lest anyone forget, Half-Life did that in 1998, and again in 2004. It's not unique, revolutionary, or evolutionary.

And that's without any cutscenes at all! (unless the G Man intro counts?)

I'm a fan of the series, but really OP is just asking to be trolled by the legions of Nintendo and MS fanboys who would more than love to give the series shit.

I am so positive that what you are saying is factually incorrect.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

SMG's focus on spherical worlds lends itself to quite a few revolutions.

there did you what see I

 

[XANDER CAGE]

And that's without any cutscenes at all! (unless the G Man intro counts?)

True! Although to be fair, the game still forces the player to sit through some dialog/exposition/etc, they just still have moderate control over their character during the proceedings.

 

[LightOfTruth]

And that's without any cutscenes at all! (unless the G Man intro counts?)

Id rather have Uncharted's cutscenes than HL's...scenes, personally.

 

[Red]

True! Although to be fair, the game still forces the player to sit through some dialog/exposition/etc, they just still have moderate control over their character during the proceedings.

Still a step in the right direction.

Id rather have Uncharted's cutscenes than HL's...scenes, personally.

That's fair. I get a bit bored of HL myself TBH.

 

[Ulairi]

I think the op meant was Uncharted's cut scenes were revolutionary.

Cut scenes are not video games. It's peopletrying to make movies.

 

[Boss Doggie]

I'm baffled as to how the fans can't just accept that their game ain't for everyone and that people will find faults to it.

Awards don't mean a thing... unless you want to go to that sort of argument which will involve Twilight books.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

Uncharted is all about making what you would normally see in cutscenes and have that be gameplay. Regardless, cut scenes are a part of games. OP is asking if you think Uncharted revolutionized that aspect of video games. I think whether he is praising the 'right' or 'wrong' thing doesnt really matter.

Edit: not in this discussion, of course

I would say no. There were far better examples of games that put old era "cutscene stuff" into the gameplay more naturally and meaningfully than Uncharted. But let's go a little further on the acting equation. There is NOTHING, not one line or scene in either Uncharted that speaks of great acting, rather than great script delivery and great animation (which other games could be argued did better).

The script, story, directing and emotional delivery of Uncharted isn't revolutionary either, it's cookie cutter summer Hollywood movie. Red Dead Redemption did a far better job at directing and acting out Marston and others' characters and the actual substance/emotions behind the lines showed through with more impact than anything in Uncharted. Same could be said of Mass Effect and Enslaved/Heavenly Sword, where there is much more nuance, emotion and better delivery in cutscenes than Uncharted... And I'm just pulling from the past few years. If OP wants the best recent example, look at LA Noire.

 

[Dorfdad]

I dunno about it being so revolutionary I mean when it all comes down it's just tomb-raider 200x with a set of balls vs giant octomom tits.

The first time I played Uncharted I felt like I was playing a male version of tomb raider. Granted a few new features but that was to be expected being developed years after the others.

 

[Red Blaster]

I would say no. There were far better examples of games that put old era "cutscene stuff" into the gameplay more naturally and meaningfully than Uncharted. But let's go a little further on the acting equation. There is NOTHING, not one line or scene in either Uncharted that speaks of great acting, rather than great script delivery and great animation (which other games could be argued did better).

The script, story, directing and emotional delivery of Uncharted isn't revolutionary either, it's cookie cutter summer Hollywood movie. Red Dead Redemption did a far better job at directing and acting out Marston and others' characters and the actual substance/emotions behind the lines showed through with more impact than anything in Uncharted. Same could be said of Mass Effect and Enslaved/Heavenly Sword, where there is much more nuance, emotion and better delivery in cutscenes than Uncharted... And I'm just pulling from the past few years.

ahuahuahua, good one

 

[Boombloxer]

If John McLane kills 15 guys over the course of a movie, it's badass. But if he kills 400 guys, it starts to feel weird.

As many Arnold movies I've seen, with Commando being the craziest or Rambo sequels where they take out whole armies, I'm positive that this doesn't matter. At all.

It's a bullshit argument, and I don't buy it, period.

Enslaved/Heavenly Sword

...I nearly split my sides laughing at this. I've played both, and while the writing is strong in the former, the cutscenes are normal quality. Serkis does a great job, but on the whole, in terms of coherency and telling a story, Uncharted is better. Some of the Heveanly Sword scenes are unwatchable to me now.

Pretty sure I don't need to see a full scene of King Bohan and his lieutenants being tools for the sake of villainy again.

 

[alr1ght]

I dunno about it being so revolutionary I mean when it all comes down it's just tomb-raider 200x with a set of balls vs giant octomom tits.

The first time I played Uncharted I felt like I was playing a male version of tomb raider. Granted a few new features but that was to be expected being developed years after the others.

Except Tomb Raider and Uncharted are nothing alike, aside from certain settings.

And LOL @ Enslaved and Mass Effect mentions.

 

[snoopeasystreet]

And, lest anyone forget, Half-Life did that in 1998, and again in 2004. It's not unique, revolutionary, or evolutionary.

Yep. And the only time the player looses control in those games is when Gordon himself loses control. Making an engaging and exciting experience without have to take control away from the player is far more of a step forward than making the cutscenes feel like a movie.

The way most modern video games still rely on another medium to convey narrative is something that worries me about where they're going.

 

[Ricky_R]

If John McLane kills 15 guys over the course of a movie, it's badass. But if he kills 400 guys, it starts to feel weird. That weird feeling is what people are talking about. By getting closer than ever to a Hollywood-quality presentation, developers have invented a new problem; a new kind of "uncanny valley" if you will.

Honestly? As believable as Drake is, I never felt that way at all. Uncharted, being a video game, I assumed people would separate the two due to the fact that it's a third person shooter game first and foremost. Obviously it was a bad assumption, but it's new to me to see so many people so concentrated on something that I find completely trivial.

Am I the only one who never even had the slight thought about something like that while playing Uncharted or any other video game for that matter?

 

[TheExplodingHead]

ahuahuahua, good one

Why not? There were all types of races and different personalities and species, and certainly more thought and substance than a couple Nolan North quips here and there. Imagine the stark difference in animating and realizing those scenes in Mass Effect on the bigger scale of it's stories and characters, and the consistent delivery of those lines. If we're just talking cutscenes, than I'd argue Mass Effect does a far better job at acting those scenes out pound-for-pound vs. Uncharted.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

a shooting mechanic/gameplay that's nowhere near best in class, zero technical gameplay depth and little strategic depth

Uncharted 2's shooting mechanic/gameplay IS the best in class with an MP mode that has plenty of technical gameplay depth and strategic depth.

 

[Red]

As many Arnold movies I've seen, with Commando being the craziest or Rambo sequels where they take out whole armies, I'm positive that this doesn't matter. At all.

It's a bullshit argument, and I don't buy it, period.

But you understand that Nathan Drake is not the same type of character as Rambo, correct? And that just because one thing presents a scene that is patently ridiculous, it does not excuse eventual copycats?

Am I the only one who never even had the slight thought about something like that while playing Uncharted or any other video game for that matter?

Probably not, and that makes me sad.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Why not? There were all types of races and different personalities and species, and certainly more thought and substance than a couple Nolan North quips here and there. Imagine the stark difference in animating and realizing those scenes in Mass Effect on the bigger scale of it's stories and characters, and the consistent delivery of those lines. If we're just talking cutscenes, than I'd argue Mass Effect does a far better job at acting those scenes out pound-for-pound vs. Uncharted.

"What about sex?"

"This store is racist!"

"You're workin' too hard."

 

[jim-jam bongs]

This topic is getting boring, needs some spice. I contend that Square-Enix are still the kings of cut-scenes. And before anyone jumps in, it doesn't matter that they're pre-rendered. After all, what difference does it make if you can't interact with them anyway?

 

[ProfessorMoran]

Why not? There were all types of races and different personalities and species, and certainly more thought and substance than a couple Nolan North quips here and there. Imagine the stark difference in animating and realizing those scenes in Mass Effect on the bigger scale of it's stories and characters, and the consistent delivery of those lines. If we're just talking cutscenes, than I'd argue Mass Effect does a far better job at acting those scenes out pound-for-pound vs. Uncharted.

Mass Effect cutscenes are pretty awkward and fucking pretentious.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

This topic is getting boring, needs some spice. I contend that Square-Enix are still the kings of cut-scenes. And before anyone jumps in, it doesn't matter that they're pre-rendered. After all, what difference does it make if you can't interact with them anyway?

you used to be a dancing jar jar with a bong and then a poker chip

now you're the main character from one of my favorite shooters

and now Square Enix cutscenes?

stop toying with my heart man

 

[Red]

"What about sex?"

"This store is racist!"

"You're workin' too hard."

I'm Commander Shepherd, and this is my favorite store on the Citadel.

 

[LightOfTruth]

Id say in terms of shooting RDR is the best, following Uncharted and Gears really on the same level.

Edit: I would definitely say Uncharted has better acting than ME, Enslaved, and even slightly better than RDR.

 

[Red Blaster]

Why not? There were all types of races and different personalities and species, and certainly more thought and substance than a couple Nolan North quips here and there. Imagine the stark difference in animating and realizing those scenes in Mass Effect on the bigger scale of it's stories and characters, and the consistent delivery of those lines. If we're just talking cutscenes, than I'd argue Mass Effect does a far better job at acting those scenes out pound-for-pound vs. Uncharted.

Most of the species in Mass Effect are pretty much different colored humans because Bioware has zero imagination. And you're just being intellectually dishonest if you actually believe something like this even approaches what's in Uncharted 2.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

Uncharted 2's shooting mechanic/gameplay IS the best in class with an MP mode that has plenty of technical gameplay depth and strategic depth.

Vanquish

 

[ProfessorMoran]

Id say in terms of shooting RDR is the best, following Uncharted and Gears really on the same level.

Edit: I would definitely say Uncharted has better acting than ME, Enslaved, and even slightly better than RDR.

Loved RDR (best game in 2010), but RDR shooting and controls are way too unresponsive for any kind of robust MP mode though.