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[Aaron]

Uncharted 2's cutscenes hit an uncanny valley speedbump. They're way better than what you expect from a videogame, but comparing them to a quality film or even a well produced TV show and they fall short because their limitations are thrown into sharp relief.

People can knock the visuals all they want, I felt they were cribbing hard from the Tomb Raider series, but anyone who knocks the gameplay is crazy.

 

[intheinbetween]

though I really liked a lot Uncharted 2,I completely disagree with the OP, UC2 is an awesome game, but I don't think it is revolutionary at all. I'll go even further at risk of being mocked at, Uncharted seems to me like a superb Tomb Rider controlling a dude instead of a hot babe.

And as someone pointed out, UC smells and tastes like fun adventure hollywood films like The Mummy for example.

 

[satriales]

The animation system in Uncharted 1 blew me away first time I played it. In Uncharted 2 it was the part where you are in a falling building and still controlling Drake. And from what I've seen so far of Uncharted 3 it is the way they have created entire levels as physics objects that blows my mind.

 

[Sloane]

I already explained why this is BS and an ignorantly simplistic opinion. I can come up with countless examples of totally different ways of approaching any given fight in a UC game, using force, environmental traversal, stealth, etc. Uncharted isn't any less dynamic than 95% of the best action games in gaming history.

I'm not only talking about fights but about the game in general. I can't remember a single moment in which I didn't exactly know where to go -- the game either tells you straight-out or it is made awfully obvious by the level design, you've never got any exploring to do. The scripting is part of that problem because it tells you every minute or so that you're still on the right track. As for the combat, I don't agree with you either; the game either throws enemy wave after enemy wave at you or the whole sequence is entirely scripted and there's just one thing you can do not to die. Sure, if you've only got a few guards patrolling an area, you can "choose" whether to blindly run at them or try to take out one at a time, but that's not really what I consider choice.

 

[TacticalFox88]

I'd love a Rango-style Uncharted movie,

As for revolutionary? Fucking hardly.

 

[snoopeasystreet]

How do you guys feel about the disparity between gameplay and cut-scenes in these games and in particular, how firearms are treated?

The cut-scenes treat guns like a movie would (i.e. a gun is an object that must be feared) and that a single bullet can be a life ender. This a cool thing, it creates tension but once you're dropped back into the core gameplay, guns and bullets are just gameplay devices that don't have the same impact to the player due to things like Drake being able to take multiple bullets and the ability to recover from these wounds in a matter of seconds.

This makes the "narrative bullet" that happens in UC2 all the more contrived. It doesn't doesn't do what other bullets in the world does and thereby breaks the rules of game world. I know it has to happen for the sake of the story but it doesn't really matter, it takes the player out the experience. It's not something limited to the Uncharted series but it seems more apparent because they focus on slipping between cut-scene and gameplay at regular intervals.

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

I think Uncharted is revolutionary in that it shows everything that's wrong with the gaming industry and modern games in general right now. It's as simple as games can get, almost everything is scripted (i.e. you never have a choice how to do achieve a goal), its story and dialogue is aimed at 15-year-olds, and it never gives you the feeling that you actually have to explore something or figure something out. So, in a sense you're right -- it is a lot like watching a TV show or a movie. If that's what you want from a game, great, but I'd rather watch, you know, a TV show or a movie instead, and play a game that doesn't treat my like I'm stupid. I hope it doesn't become a trend but I fear it already has because it's easier than creating a complex game and it seems to sell better.

That is all.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

Calling the games that, sure. But he specifically said cinematics and cutscenes. Future cinematic games will look to uncharted as the bar.

 

[-PXG-]

It's genuinely quite baffling that so many people can hate Uncharted. It's such a fun experience from top to bottom...

It's genuinely quite baffling that so many people can hate Gears of War. It's such a fun experience from top to bottom...

derp

It boils down to personal taste.

 

[H_Prestige]

I'm not only talking about fights but about the game in general. I can't remember a single moment in which I didn't exactly know where to go -- the game either tells you straight-out or it is made awfully obvious by the level design, you've never got any exploring to do. The scripting is part of that problem because it tells you every minute or so that you're still on the right track. As for the combat, I don't agree with you either; the game either throws enemy wave after enemy wave at you or the whole sequence is entirely scripted and there's just one thing you can do not to die. Sure, if you've only got a few guards patrolling an area, you can "choose" whether to blindly run at them or try to take out one at a time, but that's not really what I consider choice.

Good games can be linear or open. Bad games can be linear or open. Super Mario Bros. is literally a straight line from left to right but I've never seen anyone say it's an example of bad game design.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

How do you guys feel about the disparity between gameplay and cut-scenes in these games and in particular, how firearms are treated?

The cut-scenes treat guns like a movie would (i.e. a gun is an object that must be feared) and that a single bullet can be a life ender. This a cool thing, it creates tension but once you're dropped back into the core gameplay, guns and bullets are just gameplay devices that don't have the same impact to the player due to things like Drake being able to take multiple bullets and the ability to recover from these wounds in a matter of seconds.

This makes the "narrative bullet" that happens in UC2 all the more contrived. It doesn't doesn't do what other bullets in the world does and thereby breaks the rules of game world. I know it has to happen for the sake of the story but it doesn't really matter, it takes the player out the experience. It's not something limited to the Uncharted series but it seems more apparent because they focus on slipping between cut-scene and gameplay at regular intervals.

I think this is a good example of the kind of great gulf of consistency we've just come to accept since cutscenes started being used in games.

The problem is, when something is presented to us like a movie, we expect a certain level of realism, whereas in a game world we accept the game's rules of reality. This underlines how much of an interruption cutscenes can actually be to the kind of narrative a game's actual gameplay presents.

You're right though, this isn't limited to Uncharted and is fairly tangential to this topic, but I'd be interested in a thread exclusively about this.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

The games are meant to mimic pulp serials... quit with the comparisons to epic novels and movies. They know full well these are just popcorn stories. And they're quite good, too.

 

[Mister Wilhelm]

The one thing about Uncharted that sets it apart from other games is how it treats female characters - like actual women.

 

[snoopeasystreet]

You're right though, this isn't limited to Uncharted and is fairly tangential to this topic, but I'd be interested in a thread exclusively about this.

I'm about half way through writing a blog post about this. Once I've got it finished and am able to articulate the whole subject more clearly, I plan on making a topic about it.

 

[Boss Doggie]

The games are meant to mimic pulp serials... quit with the comparisons to epic novels and movies. They know full well these are just popcorn stories. And they're quite good, too.

That's the thing though - people think it's something "grand" even though it's not really that big.

I don't see myself playing Uncharted but I don't mind people enjoying them. Just don't go in front of me and tell me that it's "zomg so epic", or I'll push you like that TTGL fanboy who thinks TTGL is the best mecha show ever.

 

[Red]

How do you guys feel about the disparity between gameplay and cut-scenes in these games and in particular, how firearms are treated?

The cut-scenes treat guns like a movie would (i.e. a gun is an object that must be feared) and that a single bullet can be a life ender. This a cool thing, it creates tension but once you're dropped back into the core gameplay, guns and bullets are just gameplay devices that don't have the same impact to the player due to things like Drake being able to take multiple bullets and the ability to recover from these wounds in a matter of seconds.

This makes the "narrative bullet" that happens in UC2 all the more contrived. It doesn't doesn't do what other bullets in the world does and thereby breaks the rules of game world. I know it has to happen for the sake of the story but it doesn't really matter, it takes the player out the experience. It's not something limited to the Uncharted series but it seems more apparent because they focus on slipping between cut-scene and gameplay at regular intervals.

That's exactly what I mean by narrative consistency in my post on the last page.

Another glaring offender is GTAIV.

 

[Sloane]

Good games can be linear or open. Bad games can be linear or open. Super Mario Bros. is literally a straight line from left to right but I've never seen anyone say it's an example of bad game design.

I didn't say it's bad game design, I wrote "If that's what you want from a game, great, but I'd rather watch, you know, a TV show or a movie instead, and play a game that doesn't treat my like I'm stupid." I believe games should be as open as possible but the trend is to make them more and more linear which, as the OP said, sometimes feels like watching a movie -- and that's not what I personally want from games.

 

[Red]

I didn't say it's bad game design, I wrote "If that's what you want from a game, great, but I'd rather watch, you know, a TV show or a movie instead, and play a game that doesn't treat my like I'm stupid." I believe games should be as open as possible but the trend is to make them more and more linear which, as the OP said, sometimes feels like watching a movie -- and that's not what I personally want from games.

"A man chooses, a slave obeys."

 

[Magic Mushroom]

Uncharted is linear in its progression, but not so much in its battle scenario's. Like Halo, most of the battlefields are fairly open and use lots of vertical elements that give you a lot of choice. You could have ten people playing through the villlage battle and they would all use different weapons and tactics. It's one of the things I really llike about the series and why the multiplayer really works as well. It has a mobility and verticality that I miss in most other games.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

That's exactly what I mean by narrative consistency in my post on the last page.

Another glaring offender is GTAIV.

It goes beyond firearms obviously and is an issue with games for a long long time. The classic example are RPG cutscenes where people die despite there being an in-game mechanic to revive people (whether it be potions, spells, going to a cleric, etc) - no consistency with the established rules of the world.

 

[TRios Zen]

The Uncharted series is one of my favorite new IP's this gen and a hallmark of quality and fun. I am not surprised therefore that there are a lot of people on gaf, or the internet in general, who believe that it is a great game.

What is a bit surprising is how for some, that isn't enough. It would appear that Uncharted has to be MORE than just a great game. It has to be revolutionary, universally acknowledged as the pinnacle of gaming, or some other over-enthusiastic claim. I wonder what the motivation for that is?

My two cents: I loved these games and am eagerly anticipating 3, but it is not revolutionary in my mind, just a damn good series.

 

[Boss Doggie]

The Uncharted series is one of my favorite new IP's this gen and a hallmark of quality and fun. I am not surprised therefore that there are a lot of people on gaf, or the internet in general, who believe that it is a great game.

What is a bit surprising is how for some, that isn't enough. It would appear that Uncharted has to be MORE than just a great game. It has to be revolutionary, universally acknowledged as the pinnacle of gaming, or some other over-enthusiastic claim. I wonder what the motivation for that is?

My two cents: I loved these games and am eagerly anticipating 3, but it is not revolutionary in my mind, just a damn good series.

It's not so much as we want it to be better as it is about people gushing about it. We get it, it's good.

 

[Stallion Free]

The one thing about Uncharted that sets it apart from other games is how it treats female characters - like actual women.

Yeah, the Half-Life series has been doing that since 2004.

 

[jett]

Uncharted is linear in its progression, but not so much in its battle scenario's. Like Halo, most of the battlefields are fairly open and use lots of vertical elements that give you a lot of choice. You could have ten people playing through the villlage battle and they would all use different weapons and tactics. It's one of the things I really llike about the series and why the multiplayer really works as well. It has a mobility and verticality that I miss in most other games.

Exactly. It offers freedom where it should.

 

[Chuck Norris]

Exactly. It offers freedom where it should.

It could stand to have more versatility in the platforming

 

[Alxjn]

How do you guys feel about the disparity between gameplay and cut-scenes in these games and in particular, how firearms are treated?

The cut-scenes treat guns like a movie would (i.e. a gun is an object that must be feared) and that a single bullet can be a life ender. This a cool thing, it creates tension but once you're dropped back into the core gameplay, guns and bullets are just gameplay devices that don't have the same impact to the player due to things like Drake being able to take multiple bullets and the ability to recover from these wounds in a matter of seconds.

This makes the "narrative bullet" that happens in UC2 all the more contrived. It doesn't doesn't do what other bullets in the world does and thereby breaks the rules of game world. I know it has to happen for the sake of the story but it doesn't really matter, it takes the player out the experience. It's not something limited to the Uncharted series but it seems more apparent because they focus on slipping between cut-scene and gameplay at regular intervals.

I know what you're saying, but I thought I might throw this out there: Drake isn't really taking multiple bullets. Uncharted uses a "luck system". The screen saturates, but that isn't meant to indicate you're being shot and you need to sit behind cover to heal your wounds. It means you're too exposed, your luck is running out and and you're about to take take a hit, which will kill you.

At least that's how a developer explained it back before Drake's Fortune was released.

 

[Gustav]

What a sad, sad thread.

 

[Uno Venova]

The Uncharted series is one of my favorite new IP's this gen and a hallmark of quality and fun. I am not surprised therefore that there are a lot of people on gaf, or the internet in general, who believe that it is a great game.

What is a bit surprising is how for some, that isn't enough. It would appear that Uncharted has to be MORE than just a great game. It has to be revolutionary, universally acknowledged as the pinnacle of gaming, or some other over-enthusiastic claim. I wonder what the motivation for that is?

Don't forget it has to be open world too.

 

[Mr. B Natural]

Yeah, the Half-Life series has been doing that since 2004.

And Roberta Williams has about 20 years on that.

 

[Mr. B Natural]

I know what you're saying, but I thought I might throw this out there: Drake isn't really taking multiple bullets. Uncharted uses a "luck system". The screen saturates, but that isn't meant to indicate you're being shot and you need to sit behind cover to heal your wounds. It means you're too exposed, your luck is running out and and you're about to take take a hit, which will kill you.

At least that's how a developer explained it back before Drake's Fortune was released.

But he was joking I'm sure. Right...it's funny. Cause it's too stupid to be serious.

 

[Alxjn]

But he was joking I'm sure. Right...it's funny. Cause it's too stupid to be serious.

Found an article about it.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/788/788740p1.html

Instead of a health bar, the designers have used a pseudo-luck meter that drains the screen of color and amplifies the sound of your heartbeat as Nathan gets into rougher and rougher situations. The longer Drake stays in a bad position, the more the screen desaturates; the more the screen desaturates; the more likely Nathan is to die.

 

[Stallion Free]

And Roberta Williams has about 20 years on that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softporn_Adventure

 

[jett]

Found an article about it.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/788/788740p1.html

That might have been true in the first game, but you can see blood spewing out of Drake in UC2. :lol

 

[gutter_trash]

i find it strange when we talk about revolutionary in games, we are talking about scripted and cinematic events blending into gameplay rather than revolutionary gameplay.

strip many of these AAA games' scripted and cinematics out and you are left with pretty regular gameplay which is not revolutionary in the end

Granted, Naughty Dog does a great job at immersing us into their world via their transitions, scripted camera and situational moments.. that is a bar raise higher in terms of animation and seamlessness but it does not change things in terms of playing the game as gameplay

 

[Regulus Tera]

Revolutionary cutscenes in the sense that they make my stomach revolt.

Otherwise it's a fun game.

 

[WrenchNinja]

That's the thing though - people think it's something "grand" even though it's not really that big.

I don't see myself playing Uncharted but I don't mind people enjoying them. Just don't go in front of me and tell me that it's "zomg so epic", or I'll push you like that TTGL fanboy who thinks TTGL is the best mecha show ever.

1. Why do you let fans colour your opinion on a series?
2. Why do you bring up Gurren Lagann every time such a situation happens?

 

[i-Lo]

In the famous words of Amy Hennig, "Acting is reacting". Hit the nail on its head.

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

I don't think any game has ever had me more out of tune with the general consensus of the interwebz than Uncharted 2. It's one of the only games I bought this gen that I never finished.

I tried. I tried once, twice, thrice, but...just...didn't...get it. Got about as far as

Spoiler

the monastery castle thing in the mountains

and just called it a day.

Even if I don't like a game that received slathering praise from all-around, I can usually at least see why others would find it so compelling. Here, I dunno, just felt like a trudge.

*shrugs..........................then cowers*

 

[Muffdraul]

I don't think any game has ever had me more out of tune with the general consensus of the interwebz than Uncharted 2. It's one of the only games I bought this gen that I never finished.

I'm with you, for the most part. After being unimpressed with the Uncharted 1 demo, I had no plans to bother with the full game. It seemed like Gears of War minus the adrenaline crossed with Ico minus the charm. But there was so much ranting and raving about how insanely great it was, I went against my own judgment and bought a copy. I played it and finished it, and I can't say I didn't enjoy it. But my big takeaway from the whole thing was that I had learned that hard lesson we all learn around here at some point: Take the "GAF consensus" opinion with a big ass grain of salt.

 

[FinalD]

Got about as far as

Spoiler

the monastery castle thing in the mountains

and just called it a day.

Seriously? That's the last level; you might as well finish it. Go go go!

 

[Fimbulvetr]

How do you guys feel about the disparity between gameplay and cut-scenes in these games and in particular, how firearms are treated?

The cut-scenes treat guns like a movie would (i.e. a gun is an object that must be feared) and that a single bullet can be a life ender. This a cool thing, it creates tension but once you're dropped back into the core gameplay, guns and bullets are just gameplay devices that don't have the same impact to the player due to things like Drake being able to take multiple bullets and the ability to recover from these wounds in a matter of seconds.

This makes the "narrative bullet" that happens in UC2 all the more contrived. It doesn't doesn't do what other bullets in the world does and thereby breaks the rules of game world. I know it has to happen for the sake of the story but it doesn't really matter, it takes the player out the experience. It's not something limited to the Uncharted series but it seems more apparent because they focus on slipping between cut-scene and gameplay at regular intervals.

I'd love a thread on this and ludo-narrative dissonance in general.

 

[Red]

The Uncharted series is one of my favorite new IP's this gen and a hallmark of quality and fun. I am not surprised therefore that there are a lot of people on gaf, or the internet in general, who believe that it is a great game.

What is a bit surprising is how for some, that isn't enough. It would appear that Uncharted has to be MORE than just a great game. It has to be revolutionary, universally acknowledged as the pinnacle of gaming, or some other over-enthusiastic claim. I wonder what the motivation for that is?

My two cents: I loved these games and am eagerly anticipating 3, but it is not revolutionary in my mind, just a damn good series.

We're not saying it needs to be anything. We're talking about what it is and isn't. It doesn't have to be revolutionary. It definitely didn't set out to be.

 

[bergcrantz]

I would say RE4 and 5 is pretty awesome in this regard too, love the story sequences. The dialogue is a bit cheesy but all in all they work great. Incredible motion capture-performances and attention to detail.

 

[jonnybryce]

I agree with the acting point, it certainly brought the experience to another level. Although the gameplay may not be everyone's (or anyone's, lawl) cup of tea Enslaved is another game where I felt like I was watching actors perform and it adds so much to the experience. Voice acting and facial animation deserve much more attention than they are usually given and can propel a game to such higher levels of immersion and entertainment.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

I don't think any game has ever had me more out of tune with the general consensus of the interwebz than Uncharted 2. It's one of the only games I bought this gen that I never finished.

I tried. I tried once, twice, thrice, but...just...didn't...get it. Got about as far as

Spoiler

the monastery castle thing in the mountains

and just called it a day.

Even if I don't like a game that received slathering praise from all-around, I can usually at least see why others would find it so compelling. Here, I dunno, just felt like a trudge.

*shrugs..........................then cowers*

I feel the same. Uncharted is the first popular game that I haven't been able to understand why it is so acclaimed. Gears, CoD... not entirely my thing. But I get it. Uncharted just seems too vanilla for me. Maybe that's the reason- it's lowest common denominator in terms of characters, settings, writing, plot. It's also tough to resolve the cool witty adventurer as a Rambo soldier who massacres entire battalions of PMCs.

 

[i-Lo]

The Uncharted series is so overhyped its ridiculous. I must have rolled my eyes a dozen times while playing through it. For example:

-Drake falls from 50 feet, crashing into signs on the way down, and walks it off in a cutscene.
-Drake's "Wait a second...I think I got something here" Deus ex machina nonsense
-The horrible, horrible jokes
-Drake and Elena being driven off a mountain. Bad guys: "There's there no way they survived that". Drake and Elena climb up the mountain unscathed.
-The two dozen times I heard "Awe...crap" every-time Drake's in danger

Just the whole experience felt like a bad Indiana Jones ripoff (It made Kingdom of the Crystal Skull look like a masterpiece). Its a good third-person shooter, but nothing outstanding.

I think graphics are the real reason its so over-hyped.



General consensus on GAF anyways. The ridiculous hyperboles are less common on most other forums.

You know it's a game right and I guess everyone's gotta have an 'opinion'. It can be a bit of a stretch sometimes but unrealistic things like that have been seen a dime a dozen, both in movies and games.

Personally, even though I love the game and the acting, I still have a very difficult time wrapping my head around Drake being an "everyman" given his capacity for climbing steep obstacles and sending thousands of enemies to their deaths. Now that's a stretch.

 

[Dyno]

Some hyper-critical people coming out today! Some of you need to be more respectful because the topic of discussion isn't trash despite your nit-picking.

Uncharted looks beautiful all-around, it's one of the prettiest series going. Naughty Dog is top tier and y'all know it. The train sequence in Among Thieves, for example, is pure masterclass.

It's a damn fine third person shooter that stands up to all others in the genre. Add to that some fantastic platforming (again the train off the cliff sequence) and a sprinkling of engaging puzzles.

Then there's multiplayer, not because it needs it but because ND is just that good. Even Epic didn't get MP right in Gears until the third outting. MP in Among Thieves worked great right off the bat and it didn't feel tacked on.

Shit on this series all you like but it's a powerhouse on all levels. Your favourite games probably can't boast the same.

 

[Patapwn]

The Uncharted series is so overhyped its ridiculous. I must have rolled my eyes a dozen times while playing through it. For example:

-Drake falls from 50 feet, crashing into signs on the way down, and walks it off in a cutscene.
-Drake's "Wait a second...I think I got something here" Deus ex machina nonsense
-The horrible, horrible jokes
-Drake and Elena being driven off a mountain. Bad guys: "There's there no way they survived that". Drake and Elena climb up the mountain unscathed.
-The two dozen times I heard "Awe...crap" every-time Drake's in danger

Just the whole experience felt like a bad Indiana Jones ripoff (It made Kingdom of the Crystal Skull look like a masterpiece). Its a good third-person shooter, but nothing outstanding.

Thank you for bringing ridiculous hyperbole into a thread of already ridiculous hyperbole. If you thought Uncharted 2 makes Crystal Skull look like a masterpiece, I can honestly say the problem isn't the game, it's you.

 

[revolverjgw]

The Uncharted series is so overhyped its ridiculous. I must have rolled my eyes a dozen times while playing through it. For example:

-Drake falls from 50 feet, crashing into signs on the way down, and walks it off in a cutscene.
-Drake's "Wait a second...I think I got something here" Deus ex machina nonsense
-The horrible, horrible jokes
-Drake and Elena being driven off a mountain. Bad guys: "There's there no way they survived that". Drake and Elena climb up the mountain unscathed.
-The two dozen times I heard "Awe...crap" every-time Drake's in danger

Just the whole experience felt like a bad Indiana Jones ripoff (It made Kingdom of the Crystal Skull look like a masterpiece). Its a good third-person shooter, but nothing outstanding.

I think graphics are the real reason its so over-hyped.



General consensus on GAF anyways. The ridiculous hyperboles are less common on most other forums.

Some of these complaints are just so damn silly for a game that's basically an interactive pulp thriller. An adventure like this without the heroes surviving the unsurvivable can hardly be called an adventure at all. At least you didn't bring up how many people Drake has callously murdered.

And UC2 is basically worshiped everywhere, isn't it? Not just GAF. I don't cheat on GAF much but there are only 6 games with higher ratings on Metacritic, so I gather it's pretty well loved all over.

 

[TRios Zen]

We're not saying it needs to be anything. We're talking about what it is and isn't. It doesn't have to be revolutionary. It definitely didn't set out to be.

I'm not sure I agree completely with you; I would argue that Uncharted is a bit "sacred" to some PS3 faithfuls, here and on other forums. However that would be a meaningless discussion, that probably couldn't be proven one way or another, so we can move on.

I re-read the op, to make sure I stay as on topic as possible, and I really just do not see the gulf in quality that it is expressed therein.

Therefore I would say that Uncharted IS a well polished and well-written game.

It is not IMO so well written, and the characters so well portrayed, that all other games should look to it as the target that they must strive to achieve. I think the quality of voice-acting and story-telling both through cut-scenes and the gameplay this gen is pretty high, and I think you would do a disservice to numerous other games by singling out this game as significantly better.