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[JimmyRustler]

Illogical lunacy would be releasing a very powerful, $500+ system that requires big teams with big budgets and lots of time to make software. Sony would only do that if they had learned nothing from the last 6 years or so.

Realistically they will put out something more powerful than PS3, yes, but not dramatically so. If you're expecting a jump in visuals comparable to last gen... I don't think that's in the cards. Not if they want to do any better next round.

There is also the issue of an undeniable shift in the games industry toward mobile and overall less complicated software. That is happening for sure. The companies who do well in the next generation will have adapted to this trend and scaled accordingly.

Nothing's happening. People are just talking. Many swtich into the mobile sector only to realize it's not the save haven - see Peter Molyneux.

I would make no sense in releasing new consoles that aren't substantionally better than the old ones. And basically all dev comments so far have indicated that the next jump will be big. You better face the facts.

 

[EricDiesel]

every time I start a 720p (and less) game, my eyes get a little raped.

Aaaaand on to my ignore list you go. Low resolutions sure are comparable to sexual assault. Yup.

(Also prepare for your eyes to get "raped" (you fucking idiot) another generation by likely half of the games released. I'd say it's entirely likely.)

 

[DieH@rd]

Are there any immediate plans for 4bit [512 MB] chips of DDR4 memory?

What stack configurations are more likely, 2 chips one on another, or 4?

What kind of memory bandwiths can we expect from stacked chips?

 

[doomquake]

begining of 2014? wonder if 4K video (ultraHD) will be pushed around then or at least during the ps4 cycle. Thing better be able to handle it imho. On second though, it is too early for consumer 4K since I don't know if BluDiscs and old players can run that res

*edit - i landed back on earth and 4K tv's are about 20,000 USD right now.

 

[jaosobno]

Aaaaand on to my ignore list you go. Low resolutions sure are comparable to sexual assault. Yup.

(Also prepare for your eyes to get "raped" (you fucking idiot) another generation by likely half of the games released. I'd say it's entirely likely.)

Thx, polite intelligent person. I was using rape hyperbole to describe my strong negative feelings towards 720p. I wonder what mods have to say about direct insults towards other forum members.

P.s.

Learning moment:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

 

[Router]

Heh, gonna be a lot of pissed off Gafers when it comes to market only slightly more powerful than PS3. It will be smaller and cheaper though, so that's good. If it runs current gen games at 1080p/60 I'm sold. Hopefully they are pumping less money into R&D and more into software development. Bring it, Sony!

Current confirmed specs say differently.

 

[thuway]

I bolded that in relation to the price being LOL worthy (though the Miracast crack put it over the top), not the possibility of a 3TF machine (though as far as anyone has leaked, they're still targeting 2).

You do realize Miracast will officially be supported in all Android 4.2 devices right? The technology has no where to go but down in price. Nintendo is paying the "Exotic" Technology premium Sony paid for Bluray and Cell.

There is no delusion in a cheap Miracast chipset in 2014.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2411555,00.asp

 

[mrklaw]

begining of 2014? wonder if 4K video (ultraHD) will be pushed around then or at least during the ps4 cycle. Thing better be able to handle it imho. On second though, it is too early for consumer 4K since I don't know if BluDiscs and old players can run that res

*edit - i landed back on earth and 4K tv's are about 20,000 USD right now.

For video playback I'd expect PS4 to support 4k. But not for games (excepting odd polyphony tech demos with 4 PS4s rendering GT6 prologue in 4k)

 

[NemesisPrime]

Aaaaand on to my ignore list you go. Low resolutions sure are comparable to sexual assault. Yup.

(Also prepare for your eyes to get "raped" (you fucking idiot) another generation by likely half of the games released. I'd say it's entirely likely.)

Wow...

Down boy!

English not your first language?

 

[Eideka]

Aaaaand on to my ignore list you go. Low resolutions sure are comparable to sexual assault. Yup.

(Also prepare for your eyes to get "raped" (you fucking idiot) another generation by likely half of the games released. I'd say it's entirely likely.)

720p next-gen games ?

No.

 

[Router]

2013 is NOT a sensible choice. There is already a huge downward slope in sales and there isn't much lower the PS3 can go in regards to pricing. Not to mention studios are gearing up to move forward.

2013 holidays is probably where everything is being aimed, and the technology for the PS4 (and Durango) have already been selected. Mass production should start around summer.



LOL

I may be reading your post wrong but you contradict yourself like 4 times.

 

[thuway]

I may be reading your post wrong but you contradict yourself like 4 times.

His tag should be indicative of even more.

 

[StevieP]

You do realize Miracast will officially be supported in all Android 4.2 devices right? The technology has no where to go but down in price. Nintendo is paying the "Exotic" Technology premium Sony paid for Bluray and Cell.

There is no delusion in a cheap Miracast chipset in 2014.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2411555,00.asp

Why would the PS4 even need miracast unless it comes with a tablet device? Hence the eye rolling that commenced.

His tag should be indicative of even more.

Great constructive discussion. You could've corrected me instead and mentioned that I was referring to your 2014 date being an indicator.

I may be reading your post wrong but you contradict yourself like 4 times.

No, you seem to misunderstand (though I admit I am posting on no sleep). The first number should read 2014, not 2013. That makes the post make a lot more sense lol.

Basically "wait till 2014" is not a good thing, it's an extremely bad thing. There is end generational fatigue, and software development houses are already gearing up.

 

[thuway]

Why would the PS4 even need miracast unless it comes with a tablet device? Hence the eye rolling that commenced.

The Vita says hello .

 

[StevieP]

The Vita says hello .

Where is the miracast chip in the Vita?

 

[thuway]

Where is the miracast chip in the Vita?

Future renditions of the Vita have to include it in some way, or Sony has to release a dongle attachment. In any case, this would be the perfect opportunity for a Vita 2000 or a peripheral for the Vita.

 

[Router]

No, you seem to misunderstand (though I admit I am posting on no sleep). The first number should read 2014, not 2013. That makes the post make a lot more sense lol.

Basically "wait till 2014" is not a good thing, it's an extremely bad thing. There is end generational fatigue, and software development houses are already gearing up.

Ahhhh ok, now I see.

 

[Zekra Dezivad]

Can you tell me the latest rumor about PS4/720 graphic card?

ATI 7000 series? 6000?

 

[Ashes]

Miracast is like a wireless hdmi connection. Less wires ftw.

 

[StevieP]

Future renditions of the Vita have to include it in some way, or Sony has to release a dongle attachment. In any case, this would be the perfect opportunity for a Vita 2000 or a peripheral for the Vita.

No, they don't have to include it, nor would a dongle on your Vita be an attractive proposition. You fragment the userbase if it's not a standard from the start, and it basically renders it a waste of a feature / bullet point.

Can you tell me the latest rumor about PS4/720 graphic card?

ATI 7000 series? 6000?

As far as I remember, the latest official document leak confirmed by insiders/developers mentions a GCN-artchitecture that resembles a Pitcairn (78x0) variant with 18CUs and just under 2TF.

 

[jaosobno]

It would be so very sweet if PS4 would support Miracast. That would make me instantly buy an adapter so I can switch gaming between my TV and monitor (without having to connect both with HDMI).

Also, multiple HDMI ports on PS4 would be nice (if Miracast is not included).

 

[Pranay]

So i was wondering what are new things we might see next gen ?

1 - Buy the [third party game]on ps4 and stream via gaikai on any other platform
2 - Multiplayer Centric games [esspecially their first party] Single player for free but buy the multiplayer
3 - Gaming rentals on games after a particular period


What do you guys think of what they can add on PS+ ?

 

[Zekra Dezivad]

What is "TF"?

 

[StevieP]

What is "TF"?

Teraflop. It's one of GAF's favourite measurement units lol.

What do you guys think of what they can add on PS+ ?

How about multiplayer gaming? (as in "not free anymore"?)
I'm sure the option is being thrown around Sony HQ at the moment, as they look at the revenue Live brings in on all of the services by putting everything useful behind the pay wall.

 

[jaosobno]

So i was wondering what are new things we might see next gen ?

1 - Buy the [third party game]on ps4 and stream via gaikai on any other platform
2 - Multiplayer Centric games [esspecially their first party] Single player for free but buy the multiplayer
3 - Gaming rentals on games after a particular period


What do you guys think of what they can add on PS+ ?

1. Probably not on all platforms. PC - yes, Playstation Mobile certified device - yes. Everything else, no.

2. Multiplayer centric - yes (along with online pass), but no way that SP goes free ("free" is an icky word in corporate world unless it comes with microtransactions. But then it's not free, right?). SP will not die (contrary to popual opinions). You will still be seeing GTA6, TES:VI and other SP heavy games on PS4.

3. No rentals, that would hurt sales.

 

[Zekra Dezivad]

Teraflop. It's one of GAF's favourite measurement units lol.

Oh, teraflop, right! Now I feel so stupid :lol
Thanks

 

[gofreak]

No, they don't have to include it, nor would a dongle on your Vita be an attractive proposition. You fragment the userbase if it's not a standard from the start, and it basically renders it a waste of a feature / bullet point.

Sony can easily include tech in future Vita revisions to ease remote play - with fall back to earlier implementations in Vitas that don't support those protocols. It can be transparent to the end user.

That said, Vita's wireless chip does appear to have some interesting features that form the building blocks of miracast - Wifi Direct, for example. I don't think it is miracast-certified, but some key physical transport features are there and could be built upon for a better user experience with a similarly equipped PS4.

 

[StevieP]

Sony can easily include tech in future Vita revisions to ease remote play - with fall back to earlier implementations in Vitas that don't support those protocols. It can be transparent to the end user.

That said, Vita's wireless chip does appear to have some interesting features that form the building blocks of miracast - Wifi Direct, for example. I don't think it is miracast-certified, but some key physical transport features are there and could be built upon for a better user experience with a similarly equipped PS4.

Granted, I haven't looked at what Wifi Direct does nor do I think a fragmentation of an already low Vita userbase helps any case... but if the case Thuway is maki ng that you can play PS4 games on your Vita, there's still the issue of purchasing a Vita.

Same goes with any other device (say, an Android tablet). Microsoft has a similar idea with Surface and the next Xbox, but the experience isn't very coherent when it's not part of the core package.

If Sony wanted to do something similar to Nintendo in anything other than a "Hah, bullet point!" comparison they would have to use and include the technology in the box, and include a device that works with it. Including a tablet device or controller similar to Nintendo's would impact the BOM of the machine (hence less of the budget available to the internal guts) and would certainly affect the bottom line/profitability which are things that Sony bosses are probably looking at very carefully at the moment.

I don't think there are too many on GAF that would like the prospect of trading peripherals for hardware power (though I know Kinect is an integral part of the next xbox), and although many of us would willingly pay $500 or more for a console or dedicated gaming device, the mass market would have something to say about that product.

 

[gofreak]

Granted, I haven't looked at what Wifi Direct does nor do I think a fragmentation of an already low Vita userbase helps any case... but if the case Thuway is maki ng that you can play PS4 games on your Vita, there's still the issue of purchasing a Vita.

Same goes with any other device (say, an Android tablet). Microsoft has a similar idea with Surface and the next Xbox, but the experience isn't very coherent when it's not part of the core package.

If Sony wanted to do something similar to Nintendo in anything other than a "Hah, bullet point!" comparison they would have to use and include the technology in the box, and include a device that works with it. Including a tablet device or controller similar to Nintendo's would impact the BOM of the machine (hence less of the budget available to the internal guts) and would certainly affect the bottom line/profitability which are things that Sony bosses are probably looking at very carefully at the moment.

Sure, they're not going to give you everything you need to do remote play in one box.

But I don't think it's got to be an out-of-the-box feature in order to be good quality.

Anyway, I think the idea of remote play in the large will be a big thing for Sony next gen with the Gaikai purchase etc. I think you'll see them provide it on various devices, with varying levels of quality across different devices. I don't think you will need a Vita to use one of the associated services, but I think Vita <-> PS4, locally, should be on the upper end of that quality spectrum.

 

[Krabardaf]

Hard time believing some people still expect 1080p/60FPS to be the norm.I recommend to really lower your expectations.
It's not that new hardware won't be able to deliver that, it's just that most people don't care about 60FPS and 1080p, they want more realism, more stuff thrown on their screens.

I think 1080p will be adopted graduately, with games using hybrid resolutions, and many exceptions. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see 720p games at launch. Of course with far better IQ.

As for 60FPS, it's a nice dream but that won't happen for most game. Truth is, it matters for me and you, but 95%+ of buyers just don't care at all.

 

[Maxrunner]

Developers will always go for more complex scenes so i wonder if 1080P + 60 fps will really be the norm...

 

[Ashes]

Sure, they're not going to give you everything you need to do remote play in one box.

But I don't think it's got to be an out-of-the-box feature in order to be good quality.

Anyway, I think the idea of remote play in the large will be a big thing for Sony next gen with the Gaikai purchase etc. I think you'll see them provide it on various devices, with varying levels of quality across different devices. I don't think you will need a Vita to use one of the associated services, but I think Vita <-> PS4, locally, should be on the upper end of that quality spectrum.

I don't know who to give credit to, but somebody mentioned having a vita shell as a dual-shock 4 controller.

There are chinese tablets selling for £50. A mixture of the two at the price of a DS3 at retail isn't dreamland. Not that I think this will happen but with proper anologue sticks, it might not be the worst thing.

 

[Xater]

I was hoping for a 2013 release for the Holidays, myself. I feel the current-generation is wearing thin being 7/6 years old already. I wouldn't mind a new PS4/XBOX next year but I suppose 2014 is a smarter move.

Dear god no! I need new systems, everything runs like shit on these things we have right now. At least one console has to come out 2013.

 

[Krabardaf]

Dear god no! I need new systems, everything runs like shit on these things we have right now. At least one console has to come out 2013.

720 will most definitely be available next year.
PS4 before 2014, i wouldn't bet on it.

 

[M°°nblade]

Developers will always go for more complex scenes so i wonder if 1080P + 60 fps will really be the norm...

I have higher hopes for 1080p than I have for 60fps.

I'm not an expert but the sweetspot IQ norm will probably depend on how efficiently the provided hardware architecture deals with these things.

How taxing is it to increase the pixel resolution from 720p to 1080p?
How taxing are advanced lighting renders on 720p compared to less taxing custom colour space formats on 1080p?

Are they worth the trade-off? Which one looks better?

Without dev kit tests, let alone knowing the hardware specs, it's way too early to say lol@1080p or lol@720p either way

 

[jaosobno]

I have higher hopes for 1080p than I have for 60fps.

This.

I strongly believe 1080p is guaranteed, but eventually 60 fps will be sacrificed for better IQ.

Besides, can you imagine playing in 720p in let's say 2020? By that time UltraHD 3D TVs will be a normal thing (prices will definitely go down to a normal level in 7 years) not to mention 720p will most likely become standard def by that time.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Where is the miracast chip in the Vita?

Miracast is a set of standards and a software implementation that is probably possible in the Vita. Key is the ability to intercept video (no problem) then codec compress (no problem using a GPGPU) then to send it out over WiFi with the new direct connect standard which only one side has to support. Doing this while playing a game just means the overhead has to be possible, I.E. the game is not hogging the entire machine.

There has to be a Standard for negotiation, handshaking and compression between platforms; Wi-Fi CERTIFIED Miracast&#8482;: Extending the Wi-Fi experience to seamless video display (2012)

 

[jeff_rigby]

Project Thebes mentioned by Sweetvar26 and an outgoing AMD executive for the name of the Sony PS4 chipset project has another association.

Thebes HPC is a grid user authorization that is some what like a Trustzone DRM but one sign-in authorization allows multiple web or Cloud services. Considering both Sony and Microsoft are going to support an ecosystem of cloud services this seems like a good tie-in.

Why Thebes?
Because connecting the various players in any inter-process communication can be difficult, and the greater then number of players, the more difficult it becomes. This problem does not scale well with currently popular technology. Members of the Thebes team have been studying these problems. Users and services must be able to:

Publish their existence
Discover each other
(an example in higher ed: http://www.edu1world.org/PESC/32074 )
Authenticate themselves
Deliver authentication tokens that are relevant to specified services
Verify authentication
Evaluate authentication to make authorization decisions based upon policies.
This is the glue that connects resources; authentication, authorization, policies, publication, and discovery. Solving these problems in a scalable manner allows the creation of broadly distributed trustworthy systems capable of sharing any sort of resources.

Widespread adoption will ease access to a vast aggregate of diverse resources for users with widely differing levels of expertise. Decentralizing service indexes will ease the burden on system owners, encouraging them to make resources available. By connecting users to and across existing grids and to new installations, regardless of the underlying technology or size this middleware should benefit existing projects.

 

[pottuvoi]

I have higher hopes for 1080p than I have for 60fps.

As do I.

1080p is finally a image format that is actually native for most of the TVs, so developers can display the images properly on a TV.

 

[RiverBed]

Is it safe to presume that even if next gen HW isn't announced during E3, we will at least get solid news about next-gen by that time? Maybe even a few official screenshots?

 

[Sid]

Is it safe to presume that even if next gen HW isn't announced during E3, we will at least get solid news about next-gen by that time? Maybe even a few official screenshots?

They will likely be unveiled before e3 2013

 

[Router]

Is it safe to presume that even if next gen HW isn't announced during E3, we will at least get solid news about next-gen by that time? Maybe even a few official screenshots?

E3 has already been confirmed as the "Birth of the Next Generation" So yeah, we will see stuff. It should play out something like this IMO...

Microsoft - Leaked details from CES in January. Official announcement April or May. Blowout at E3.

Sony - Leaks from CES, Announcement at E3.


Plus we have the VGA's in December that have "next gen teasers" to show us.

 

[DieH@rd]

Microsoft - Leaked details from CES in January. Official announcement April or May. Blowout at E3.

Sony - Leaks from CES, Announcement at E3.

IMO.

CES is too early. I think they will both aim at GDC.

 

[Router]

CES is too early. I think they will both aim at GDC.

There wont be any official stuff from CES but we know from Crytek that there will be behind closed doors presentations going on so expect leaks from that. GDC could be possible for something official. Sony might take the chance but I'd say Microsoft will do their own thing closer to E3.

 

[Binabik15]

No reason to let the Wii-U be the shiny new thing after holiday 2012 where Sony and MS will want to squeeze another holiday of sales out of their machines.


Then try and steal all the attention away at E3 with more hype and marketing than 05 and unveiling combined. If MS gets the 720 out next year I'd say we'll see another dumbfoetundingly expensive marketing campaign next year and the 360 being dropped like a hot potato.

If Sony can't get PS4 out in time for next year a holiday price drop and I can see them selling dirt cheap PS3 plus party/family games after PS4's launch, like they did for PS2. Depends on the per-unit profit of a cheap super slim and if they can somehowput BC in the 4, I guess. Then again, it was never as popular as PS2, which sold well enoigh into this gen.

 

[Router]

No reason to let the Wii-U be the shiny new thing after holiday 2012 where Sony and MS will want to squeeze another holiday of sales out of their machines.


Then try and steal all the attention away at E3 with more hype and marketing than 05 and unveiling combined. If MS gets the 720 out next year I'd say we'll see another dumbfoetundingly expensive marketing campaign next year and the 360 being dropped like a hot potato.

If Sony can't get PS4 out in time for next year a holiday price drop and I can see them selling dirt cheap PS3 plus party/family games after PS4's launch, like they did for PS2. Depends on the per-unit profit of a cheap super slim and if they can somehowput BC in the 4, I guess. Then again, it was never as popular as PS2, which sold well enoigh into this gen.

They wont repeat the killing of the xbox. That thing was leaking money faster than even Microsoft could stomach. With the 360 they are making profit and they can support the system for a few more years while they are building up the userbase for the next console.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

E3 has already been confirmed as the "Birth of the Next Generation" So yeah, we will see stuff. It should play out something like this IMO...

Microsoft - Leaked details from CES in January. Official announcement April or May. Blowout at E3.

Sony - Leaks from CES, Announcement at E3.


Plus we have the VGA's in December that have "next gen teasers" to show us.

Sony and MS will do their own reveal before E3 I'll bet.

 

[flattie]

No reason to let the Wii-U be the shiny new thing after holiday 2012 where Sony and MS will want to squeeze another holiday of sales out of their machines.


Then try and steal all the attention away at E3 with more hype and marketing than 05 and unveiling combined. If MS gets the 720 out next year I'd say we'll see another dumbfoetundingly expensive marketing campaign next year and the 360 being dropped like a hot potato.

If Sony can't get PS4 out in time for next year a holiday price drop and I can see them selling dirt cheap PS3 plus party/family games after PS4's launch, like they did for PS2. Depends on the per-unit profit of a cheap super slim and if they can somehowput BC in the 4, I guess. Then again, it was never as popular as PS2, which sold well enoigh into this gen.

Unlike MS, Sony have some big games pencilled in for next year, which I can see being used to drive one more holiday period. My gut feeling is 2014, start of Q2. If it releases earlier, then I'd expect to see it land in the US and maybe Japan in Q4 2013, with the EU to see it in 2014 based on the likelihood that the PS3 will continue to do good business in PAL land in the mean time.

 

[dragonelite]

E3 has already been confirmed as the "Birth of the Next Generation" So yeah, we will see stuff. It should play out something like this IMO...

Microsoft - Leaked details from CES in January. Official announcement April or May. Blowout at E3.

Sony - Leaks from CES, Announcement at E3.


Plus we have the VGA's in December that have "next gen teasers" to show us.

I thought microsoft didn't go to CES anymore or was it they didn't want to give the keynote anymore?

 

[thuway]

Goddamit this thread is so dry. We need new leaks already .