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PS5 Pro devkits arrive at third-party studios, Sony expects Pro specs to leak

SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Go_Ly_Dow said:
Is this relevant for the Pro?

Click to expand...

Nah, the 7700xt is what you are getting in terms of CUs and hopefully better RT performance with either perf per watt or perf per clock gains to get close to 7800xt performance.

This is an 80 CU behemoth that likely wont even be in the PS6. Plus it still has the same trashy RT performance so you dont want this in the PS5 Pro anyway.
 
Wooxsvan

Wooxsvan

Member
wonder if we'll get any references to this history in the not too distance future...

599USDollarspic1.jpg
 
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Loxus

Loxus

Member
FxlBiQO.jpg


So the Pro's GPU can be RDNA3 with elements from RDNA2 for BC, but Zen4c with elements from Zen2 for BC is somehow impossible?

And what's with this need for DDR for the OS?
None of the consoles Mark Cerny developed had DDR PHY on the chip.
xHrB7FB.jpg
QHBGiWv.jpg

XtGnQdm.jpg


On PS4/PS4 Pro, there's a secondary ARM processor that utilities that DDR memory to assist with background functions and OS features.

PlayStation 4 technical specifications
Overall unified system memory architecture was improved, with the addition of another 1 GB segment of DDR3 DRAM. The PS4 Pro could use this increase in memory to swap out non-gaming applications that run in the background, like Netflix and Spotify.
uQloCBO.jpg


We know how fast the PS5 can load stuff, so I see not need for that 4GB DDR5.

Not only that, on PS5 that DDR4 is used for the SSD Cache.
YYCceeF.jpg

uM0SpOe.jpg



It would be much better to just give the PS5 Pro 18 or 20 GB of GDDR6.
 
S

shamoomoo

Banned
SlimySnake said:
Nah, the 7700xt is what you are getting in terms of CUs and hopefully better RT performance with either perf per watt or perf per clock gains to get close to 7800xt performance.

This is an 80 CU behemoth that likely wont even be in the PS6. Plus it still has the same trashy RT performance so you dont want this in the PS5 Pro anyway.
Click to expand...
No. Especially if the 2 shader engines leak is real. The Pro GPU would be a way better version of the Series X if it has 2 SEs,the total will have to be 32 WGP as there can't be 15 WPGs per shader array.
 
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M

MisterXDTV

Member
If they go over 60 CUs, then it's gonna be an heavily cut Navi 31 chip like the Radeon PRO W7800 (70 CUs) or the RX 7900M (72 CUs)

It would be a surprising move IMO
 
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S

shamoomoo

Banned
v2-3c5ad75fadbfe4706bbbf90575eac0a2_b.jpg



Assuming the Pro GPU is crammed together like the Series X with 4 more WGPs,one in each column for 32 WGPs and 2 disable for production yields
 
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Audiophile

Audiophile

Gold Member
I thought at first a li'l 2GB DDR4 would be the easiest solution, offload 2GB of the OS/Background giving devs ~15.5-16GB of GDDR6 vs the ~13.5-14GB from before. Such a small amount of DDR is dirt cheap and would require only a tiny bus on the die. For eg.

PS5:
13.5GB GDDR6 @ 448GB/s (8x14Gbps via 256-Bit)

PS5 Pro eg. 1:
15.5GB GDDR6 @ 576GB/s (8x18Gbps via 256-Bit)
w/ 2GB DDR4 @ 6.4GB/s (1x3.2Gbps via add. 16-Bit)

PS5 Pro eg. 2:
15.5GB GDDR6 @ 576GB/s (8x18Gbps via 256-Bit)
w/ 2GB LPDDR4 @ 17.2GB/s (1x4.3Gbps via add. 32-Bit)

That said, I think 6.4GB/s would be pushing it even if it is just for the OS/Background. At which point you start cranking the cost and die space for LPDDR4/X or DDR5 and 32-Bit/64-Bit buses and it might just pay off to go back, simplify and bump the GDDR6 to 20GB on a 320-Bit bus; from which you'll get more much-needed bandwidth and the ability to divvy up the RAM precisely for Games vs OS/Bg. Plus, given that the bandwidth is a good bit higher and you already have a fast SSD to swap files in and out on the fly, they might be able to further reduce the OS/Bg footprint and give even more RAM to Games. They could also bump down to an intermediate 16Gbps G6 chip speed and still see a nice bandwidth bump.

PS5 Pro eg. 3:
17.5GB-18GB GDDR6 @ 640GB/s (10x16Gbps via 320-Bit)


If they did do this and the chip is 60/64CU over 2SE it'd basically be akin to an XSX APU with RDNA3/4, much higher clocks across the board, a 50-100% wider GPU front-end and the same memory bus with an extra 2GB and a simpler interface.


** Just a sidenote, the exact RAM reserves for non-gam functions aren't confirmed but I recall a few dev references that said 2-2.5GB.


Regarding BC. I guess in this approach they could theoretically shut down 1SE:30CU + 1SE:12CU for PS4 Base modes, then 1SE:12CU + 1SE:12CU for all PS4 Pro & PS5 Base/Boost modes.
 
SolidQ

SolidQ

Member
It's a 80 CUs Navi 31 card. I don't think so

PS5 Pro should be based on Navi 32 (60 CUs) like the 7800 XT/7700 XT
Click to expand...
RDNA 3.5 still a bit difference,

anyway interesting 12CU IGPU RDNA 3.5 vs RX 6400 12 CU RDNA2
 
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AncientOrigin

AncientOrigin

Member
Audiophile said:
SPEC-ulation

My old one:
aA9NoF5tbDzZJRT_1709067918.png


'Couple new ones:
HoYVCI2r9z0YNKs_1709067919.png
LI0Wu3mru0kvoDC_1709067919.png
Click to expand...
Your specs for the Pro are great except 320 bus will not happen.They will use faster ram to get the bandwidth higher.They want the Pro to be as cheap as possible while improving performance.
This fall price for normal ps5 will be 399 pro will be 499.
 
SonGoku

SonGoku

Member
playsaves3 said:
Why is zen 5 so extreme the zen 2 in ps5 is like a paired down 3700x I assume the zen 5 equivalent would be like an 8700x cut down why couldn’t the pro use it that cpu upgrade could guarantee 60fps on any ps5 game and 120fps on 90% of them
Click to expand...
Main thing is cost, the Sony we know since PS4 era is very efficient at producing a decently powerful machine but they also cut costs everywhere they can and for what you are suggesting i think even a Zen 4 would suffice. They like to price their console as low as possible they wont go for the premium console approach, they will go for best value

Another thing that makes me believe all we gonna get is Zen 2 is Cerny comments about the PS4 Pro not getting a CPU upgrade because of what he considers part of a next gen upgrade (CPU, storage type, ram).
Remember this is the same company that sliced Zen 2 cache from 32MB to 8MB so save a few 26mm2 of die space
 
S

shamoomoo

Banned
SonGoku said:
Main thing is cost, the Sony we know since PS4 era is very efficient at producing a decently powerful machine but they also cut costs everywhere they can and for what you are suggesting i think even a Zen 4 would suffice. They like to price their console as low as possible they wont go for the premium console approach, they will go for best value

Another thing that makes me believe all we gonna get is Zen 2 is Cerny comments about the PS4 Pro not getting a CPU upgrade because of what he considers part of a next gen upgrade (CPU, storage type, ram).
Remember this is the same company that sliced Zen 2 cache from 32MB to 8MB so save a few 26mm2 of die space
Click to expand...
I'm sure 32MB isn't needed,16MB probably would be sufficient for a close platform like consoles.
 
Loxus

Loxus

Member
Yea I know you guys don't like RGT, but in his latest RDNA 4 video. He had these specs.
A1ooi0j.jpg

o5UZAIa.jpg


One thing I noticed is Navi 48 has 32 WGP, same as PS5 Pro rumored WGP. Coincidence?

If PS5 Pro is RDNA4, I can see them pairing it with Zen5c. Similar to what Kepler thinks Steam Deck 2 will use.
 
P

playsaves3

Banned
SonGoku said:
Main thing is cost, the Sony we know since PS4 era is very efficient at producing a decently powerful machine but they also cut costs everywhere they can and for what you are suggesting i think even a Zen 4 would suffice. They like to price their console as low as possible they wont go for the premium console approach, they will go for best value

Another thing that makes me believe all we gonna get is Zen 2 is Cerny comments about the PS4 Pro not getting a CPU upgrade because of what he considers part of a next gen upgrade (CPU, storage type, ram).
Remember this is the same company that sliced Zen 2 cache from 32MB to 8MB so save a few 26mm2 of die space
Click to expand...
I actually think zen 4 would be cutting it a little too close especially if they want to do More rt which has a cpu cost unlike zen 5
 
P

playsaves3

Banned
Loxus said:
Yea I know you guys don't like RGT, but in his latest RDNA 4 video. He had these specs.
A1ooi0j.jpg

o5UZAIa.jpg


One thing I noticed is Navi 48 has 32 WGP, same as PS5 Pro rumored WGP. Coincidence?

If PS5 Pro is RDNA4, I can see them pairing it with Zen5c. Similar to what Kepler thinks Steam Deck 2 will use.
Click to expand...

Renewed hope this is awesome to hear what about 3d cache
 
Valonquar

Valonquar

Member
After playing the game most of the day:
This is some early Assassin's Creed levels of jank graphics. Lots of cut & paste asset reuse all over a map that is simultaneously pretty and horrible. It actually reminds me a lot of FFXIV's early 1.0 experience where they wanted the map to be large, but didn't really want to put in major effort\budget to curate it into a pleasant experience overall. How the fuck did so many outlets rate this 10\10? I mean I'm still going to play it but holy shit it's a bit of a painful ride.

Their decision to not carry over save data from Remake is so fucking retarded I can't even.

**Edit I have no idea how I posted this in wrong thread... I blame SE
 
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TheRedRiders

TheRedRiders

Member
Valonquar said:
After playing the game most of the day:
This is some early Assassin's Creed levels of jank graphics. Lots of cut & paste asset reuse all over a map that is simultaneously pretty and horrible. It actually reminds me a lot of FFXIV's early 1.0 experience where they wanted the map to be large, but didn't really want to put in major effort\budget to curate it into a pleasant experience overall. How the fuck did so many outlets rate this 10\10? I mean I'm still going to play it but holy shit it's a bit of a painful ride.

Their decision to not carry over save data from Remake is so fucking retarded I can't even.
Click to expand...
Wrong thread lol?
 
Audiophile

Audiophile

Gold Member
I kinda wish Sony would just do a soft reveal / talk with Cerny akin to the PS4 Pro event or the Road To PS5, sooner rather than later, perhaps in the week before GDC.

I understand not wanting to announce mainstream products too long before launch but I'd argue this is quiet a different case. The PS4 Pro was still a very budget-conscious device with a $399 price tag, arguably they were testing the waters of the midgen concept with a safer entry. It'll likely be a much more premium device relative to the PS4 Pro, with I expect a $599 price.. Many folks will have to get their wallets ready.

This time a precedent has been set (not to mention plenty of rumour and speculation), leading to anticipation. Most people who want a Pro will either be waiting it out and skipping the base system or already have (or have had) the base system and will be upgrading upon its release. I don't think announcing a Pro now would make much difference to their base system sales.

Sony alluded to PS4 Pro 6mths before it launched and officially announced it 9wks before launch.

Rumours point to September this time instead of November; which would make more sense as the Slim has already launched and this gen is likely looking to be 8yrs long and we're already looking at a Pro launch this gen ~1yr later than the Pro launch last gen..

Again, given that its official announcement is unlikely to put much of a dent in the base system sales this time around, I'd think combining the "allusion", the general announce and tech side into one event earlier on would make more sense, especially before GDC given things will likely start getting leaky. The bulk of the target audiences for the PS5 Pro who will actually be paying attention at this point will be more technically-oriented too.

The specs should effectively be nailed down at this point outside minor clock differences. So, unless there's no tangible software stuff to show, it'd make sense to get out ahead of leaks from production/manufacture, studios with devkits and GDC.

I'd think a full tech talk with demos, near-full specs and Cerny & Co.'s methodology behind the configuration; and a logo in the week before GDC would be great.

Then a PS5 Pro-focused showcase in late July with the hardware design, price, release date and full spec/config. I'd also make every effort to get R* to have GTAVI running just a few shots on the system with -- if possible -- PS5 Pro being the only place to play at 60fps at launch. I'd also announce a $50-100 price drop for the base system here. Followed by a release in mid September.

I'd also make sure to get all first party stuff updated and with tangible differences, (let's be honest, the quantity isn't massive). I'd launch with a Ratchet N' Clank bundle, a Spider-Man 2 bundle, a Star Wars: Outlaws Bundled & a Helldivers II + 3mth PS Plus bundle; all with showcase upgrades.

Then announced right before their respective launches in 2025, a GTAVI bundle and a Death Stranding 2 bundle.

Taking all variables into account, I genuinely wouldn't be surprised by Sony at least soft-announcing or talking about their midgen system any time now. The only caveat to this would be the layoffs, whatever the topic of any publicity occurring in the short term, they may just wanna stay out of the limelight altogether for the coming weeks while things settle.
 
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Loxus

Loxus

Member
playsaves3 said:
i hope your first statement is right then im willing to drop 700 on this as long as the specs back it
Click to expand...
For me, I would like them to work rework the L3 Cache and System Memory.

This is AMD's Mi300 layout.
mLxME3n.jpg

TiYWrmN.png


And this is RDNA 4C rumored layout.
DbGJllB.png

The SED on RDNA 4C are stacked on top of the AID similar to the XCD on Mi300.
A Shader Engine Die (SED) is rumored to have a total of 16 WGP (32 CU).

If PS5 Pro is based on RDNA 4 chiplets, it'll have 1 AID and 2 SED. The 3rd SED would be a CCD.

This is where I think the L3 Cache rework will happen.
Remove the L3 from the CCD and place it in the AID. The CCD would be stacked on top of the AID, which would house maybe 64MB of L3/Infinity Cache.
rrjPv4M.jpg

Don't mind the core count, this image was from a Zen4c rumor.


For System Memory, latency is the biggest issue. For me HBM solves this issue, but it's too expensive. Then I remembered something Samsung was working on called Low Cost HBM.
FxSBPD4.jpg


I can see Mark Cerny being given the opportunity to revisit this concept in the same way he was given the opportunity to work on the PS5's SSD controller and IO Complex.

These two things would be great to see in the PS5 Pro, while we get muti-gpu chiplets for PS6.
 
HeisenbergFX4

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
Audiophile said:
I kinda wish Sony would just do a soft reveal / talk with Cerny akin to the PS4 Pro event or the Road To PS5, sooner rather than later, perhaps in the week before GDC.

I understand not wanting to announce mainstream products too long before launch but I'd argue this is quiet a different case. The PS4 Pro was still a very budget-conscious device with a $399 price tag, arguably they were testing the waters of the midgen concept with a safer entry. It'll likely be a much more premium device relative to the PS4 Pro, with I expect a $599 price.. Many folks will have to get their wallets ready.

This time a precedent has been set (not to mention plenty of rumour and speculation), leading to anticipation. Most people who want a Pro will either be waiting it out and skipping the base system or already have (or have had) the base system and will be upgrading upon its release. I don't think announcing a Pro now would make much difference to their base system sales.

Sony alluded to PS4 Pro 6mths before it launched and officially announced it 9wks before launch.

Rumours point to September this time instead of November; which would make more sense as the Slim has already launched and this gen is likely looking to be 8yrs long and we're already looking at a Pro launch this gen ~1yr later than the Pro launch last gen..

Again, given that its official announcement is unlikely to put much of a dent in the base system sales this time around, I'd think combining the "allusion", the general announce and tech side into one event earlier on would make more sense, especially before GDC given things will likely start getting leaky. The bulk of the target audiences for the PS5 Pro who will actually be paying attention at this point will be more technically-oriented too.

The specs should effectively be nailed down at this point outside minor clock differences. So, unless there's no tangible software stuff to show, it'd make sense to get out ahead of leaks from production/manufacture, studios with devkits and GDC.

I'd think a full tech talk with demos, near-full specs and Cerny & Co.'s methodology behind the configuration; and a logo in the week before GDC would be great.

Then a PS5 Pro-focused showcase in late July with the hardware design, price, release date and full spec/config. I'd also make every effort to get R* to have GTAVI running just a few shots on the system with -- if possible -- PS5 Pro being the only place to play at 60fps at launch. I'd also announce a $50-100 price drop for the base system here. Followed by a release in mid September.

I'd also make sure to get all first party stuff updated and with tangible differences, (let's be honest, the quantity isn't massive). I'd launch with a Ratchet N' Clank bundle, a Spider-Man 2 bundle, a Star Wars: Outlaws Bundled & a Helldivers II + 3mth PS Plus bundle; all with showcase upgrades.

Then announced right before their respective launches in 2025, a GTAVI bundle and a Death Stranding 2 bundle.

Taking all variables into account, I genuinely wouldn't be surprised by Sony at least soft-announcing or talking about their midgen system any time now. The only caveat to this would be the layoffs, whatever the topic of any publicity occurring in the short term, they may just wanna stay out of the limelight altogether for the coming weeks while things settle.
Click to expand...
We wont get anything official until Summer
 
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