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PS5 Pro devkits arrive at third-party studios, Sony expects Pro specs to leak

ManaByte

ManaByte

Member
Clear said:
To be honest I don't recall the PS4 Pro specs leaking ahead of time either. Maybe I've forgotten, but all I recall is the reveal and people trying to figure out what Sony had done after that.
Click to expand...

Developers were talking about it. All we have right now is Tom Henderson (who's been very quiet about it lately) and YouTube hoaxers "hearing things".

kotaku.com

Sources: Sony Is Working On A ‘PlayStation 4.5’

Sony is currently planning a new version of the PS4 with increased graphical power and games running at 4K resolution, developer sources tell Kotaku.
kotaku.com kotaku.com

A month after developers were leaking it's actual existence to Kotaku, the specs leaked:
www.neowin.net

More details rumored about Sony's PlayStation 4.5 a.k.a NEO

Although we have yet to see Sony announce anything officially, new details have emerged from undisclosed sources that claim the updated console won't get its own games, among other things.
www.neowin.net www.neowin.net
 
Clear

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
ManaByte said:
Developers were talking about it. All we have right now is Tom Henderson (who's been very quiet about it lately) and YouTube hoaxers "hearing things".

kotaku.com

Sources: Sony Is Working On A ‘PlayStation 4.5’

Sony is currently planning a new version of the PS4 with increased graphical power and games running at 4K resolution, developer sources tell Kotaku.
kotaku.com kotaku.com

A month after developers were leaking it's actual existence to Kotaku, the specs leaked:
www.neowin.net

More details rumored about Sony's PlayStation 4.5 a.k.a NEO

Although we have yet to see Sony announce anything officially, new details have emerged from undisclosed sources that claim the updated console won't get its own games, among other things.
www.neowin.net www.neowin.net
Click to expand...

Look at the date of that article, April 2016 with the official announcement in September and Release in Nov.

Feels like we're on comparable time-lines?

Also I'd say that Sony have generally gotten very good at keeping a lid on things. I mean, a really good example is that looking at the release dates of these upcoming Xbox ports, people inside of Sony must've known about them a long, long time in advance. That they didn't leak earlier (out of their camp) is somewhat surprising.
 
Mr.Phoenix

Mr.Phoenix

Member
Clear said:
Look at the date of that article, April 2016 with the official announcement in September and Release in Nov.

Feels like we're on comparable time-lines?

Also I'd say that Sony have generally gotten very good at keeping a lid on things. I mean, a really good example is that looking at the release dates of these upcoming Xbox ports, people inside of Sony must've known about them a long, long time in advance. That they didn't leak earlier (out of their camp) is somewhat surprising.
Click to expand...
Yup. There were no more leaks like what happened with the OG PS4, but there were enough stuff said here and there to let you have an idea of what was coming.

That still seems to be the case now. My guess is that when we are like 3 months off from its launch, it would be impossible then to keep it hidden. At that point, we will even have a video from the Chinese builders.
 
ManaByte

ManaByte

Member
Clear said:
Look at the date of that article, April 2016 with the official announcement in September and Release in Nov.

Feels like we're on comparable time-lines?

Also I'd say that Sony have generally gotten very good at keeping a lid on things. I mean, a really good example is that looking at the release dates of these upcoming Xbox ports, people inside of Sony must've known about them a long, long time in advance. That they didn't leak earlier (out of their camp) is somewhat surprising.
Click to expand...

In 2016 we didn't have 11TB of files hacked from a first party studio though. And there's no mention of a mid-gen upgrade in any of those files, despite them covering games releasing up to 2029.
 
M

MisterXDTV

Member
Once spring comes (late March-early April) it will be gametime...

I guess Cerny could even appear at GDC talking about it (March 18-22)
 
Last edited:
D

Deleted member 848825

Unconfirmed Member
MisterXDTV said:
Once spring comes (late March-early April) it will be gametime...

I guess Cerny could even appear at GDC talking about it (March 18-22)
Click to expand...
I'd be surprised if they officially announced it that early. PS4 Pro iirc was announced in Sept and released in Nov 2016.
 
Audiophile

Audiophile

Gold Member
From a post I made on B3D; I do find the whole multiples of 18 system very elegant:


On PS4 (2013):
18CU @ 800MHz - PS4 | Base Mode

On PS4 Pro (2016):
18CU @ 800MHz - PS4 | Base Mode
18CU @ 911MHz - PS4 | Boost Mode
36CU @ 911MHz - PS4 Pro Patched

On PS5 (2020):
18CU @ 800MHz - PS4 | Base Mode
18CU @ 911/2233MHz - PS4 | Boost Mode
36CU @ 911MHz - PS4 Pro Patched
36CU @ 2233MHz - PS4 Pro Patched | Boost Mode
36CU @ 2233MHz - PS5 | Base Mode


And thinking ahead, for eg.

On PS5 Pro (2024):
18CU @ 800MHz - PS4 | Base Mode
18CU @ 911/2233MHz - PS4 | Boost Mode
36CU @ 911MHz - PS4 Pro Patched
36CU @ 2233/2500MHz - PS4 Pro Patched | Boost Mode
36CU @ 2233MHz - PS5 | Base Mode
36CU @ 2500MHz - PS5 | Boost Mode
54CU @ 2500mHz - PS5 Pro Patched

On PS6 (2028):
18CU @ 800MHz - PS4 | Base Mode
18CU @ 911/2233MHz - PS4 | Boost Mode
36CU @ 911MHz - PS4 Pro Patched
36CU @ 2233/2500MHz - PS4 Pro Patched | Boost Mode
36CU @ 2233MHz - PS5 | Base Mode
36CU @ 2500/3300MHz - PS5 | Boost Mode
54CU @ 2500mHz - PS5 Pro Patched
54CU @ 2500/3300mHz - PS5 Pro Patched | Boost Mode
108CU @ 3300MHz - PS6 | Base Mode

On PS6 Pro (2032):
18CU @ 800MHz - PS4 | Base Mode
18CU @ 911/2233MHz - PS4 | Boost Mode
36CU @ 911MHz - PS4 Pro Patched
36CU @ 2233/2500MHz - PS4 Pro Patched | Boost Mode
36CU @ 2233MHz - PS5 | Base Mode
36CU @ 2500/3300MHz - PS5 | Boost Mode
54CU @ 2500mHz - PS5 Pro Patched
54CU @ 2500/3300MHz - PS5 Pro Patched | Boost Mode
108CU @ 3300MHz - PS6 | Base Mode
108CU @ 3600MHz - PS6 | Boost Mode
162CU @ 3600MHz - PS6 Pro Patched Mode

That said, by the time PS7 comes around and assuming it's a traditional, local piece of higher spec hardware. I wouldn't be surprised if we see some paradigm shifts and considerable changes in architecture. Eventually maintaining hardware blocks or cells on the die that support multiple past systems may begin to prove an outsized detriment to native software, as well as having a bloated, complex array of modes to maintain. The good thing is from PS4 onwards games are x86 based and from PS5 onwards they're unlikely to have logic tightly coupled to exact clocks. So the prospect of shifting some elements of BC into the software emulation (along with the hardware power to brute force it) may not be so daunting as it is for current, past systems.

As for PS1/PS2/PS3/PSP/PSVita. I'd love to see them circumvent the entire issue of BC and just build a miniscule version of the CELL B.E., PS1/PS2 logic vital for perfect execution of that software and a basic ARM chip; all on a tiny die made on modern processes. If we see future platforms move to chiplets this could be included as an extra chiplet. The issue of course would be having adaptive timings/latencies/clocks given that circuits would be much, much shorter on such a small die. I think I've said this before, but they could just get in at the base level and address the problem there -- sooner rather than later -- rather than expend vast resources on complex, imperfect software solutions that will require per-software checks and fixes. This chip could be sold standalone in a budget legacy console, as a marketable extra in Pro consoles (as an add-on chiplet on SoCs); and embedded in future Portables/Handhelds. This "PS123-PV" die could theoretically probably be <10% the size of a modern APU die in consoles.
 
Last edited:
P

playsaves3

Banned
Audiophile said:
From a post I made on B3D; I do find the whole multiples of 18 system very elegant:


On PS4 (2013):
18CU @ 800MHz - PS4 | Base Mode

On PS4 Pro (2016):
18CU @ 800MHz - PS4 | Base Mode
18CU @ 911MHz - PS4 | Boost Mode
36CU @ 911MHz - PS4 Pro Patched

On PS5 (2020):
18CU @ 800MHz - PS4 | Base Mode
18CU @ 911/2233MHz - PS4 | Boost Mode
36CU @ 911MHz - PS4 Pro Patched
36CU @ 2233MHz - PS4 Pro Patched | Boost Mode
36CU @ 2233MHz - PS5 | Base Mode


And thinking ahead, for eg.

On PS5 Pro (2024):
18CU @ 800MHz - PS4 | Base Mode
18CU @ 911/2233MHz - PS4 | Boost Mode
36CU @ 911MHz - PS4 Pro Patched
36CU @ 2233/2500MHz - PS4 Pro Patched | Boost Mode
36CU @ 2233MHz - PS5 | Base Mode
36CU @ 2500MHz - PS5 | Boost Mode
54CU @ 2500mHz - PS5 Pro Patched

On PS6 (2028):
18CU @ 800MHz - PS4 | Base Mode
18CU @ 911/2233MHz - PS4 | Boost Mode
36CU @ 911MHz - PS4 Pro Patched
36CU @ 2233/2500MHz - PS4 Pro Patched | Boost Mode
36CU @ 2233MHz - PS5 | Base Mode
36CU @ 2500/3300MHz - PS5 | Boost Mode
54CU @ 2500mHz - PS5 Pro Patched
54CU @ 2500/3300mHz - PS5 Pro Patched | Boost Mode
108CU @ 3300MHz - PS6 | Base Mode

On PS6 Pro (2032):
18CU @ 800MHz - PS4 | Base Mode
18CU @ 911/2233MHz - PS4 | Boost Mode
36CU @ 911MHz - PS4 Pro Patched
36CU @ 2233/2500MHz - PS4 Pro Patched | Boost Mode
36CU @ 2233MHz - PS5 | Base Mode
36CU @ 2500/3300MHz - PS5 | Boost Mode
54CU @ 2500mHz - PS5 Pro Patched
54CU @ 2500/3300MHz - PS5 Pro Patched | Boost Mode
108CU @ 3300MHz - PS6 | Base Mode
108CU @ 3600MHz - PS6 | Boost Mode
162CU @ 3600MHz - PS6 Pro Patched Mode

That said, by the time PS7 comes around and assuming it's a traditional, local piece of higher spec hardware. I wouldn't be surprised if we see some paradigm shifts and considerable changes in architecture. Eventually maintaining hardware blocks or cells on the die that support multiple past systems may begin to prove an outsized detriment to native software, as well as having a bloated, complex array of modes to maintain. The good thing is from PS4 onwards games are x86 based and from PS5 onwards they're unlikely to have logic tightly coupled to exact clocks. So the prospect of shifting some elements of BC into the software emulation (along with the hardware power to brute force it) may not be so daunting as it is for current, past systems.

As for PS1/PS2/PS3/PSP/PSVita. I'd love to see them circumvent the entire issue of BC and just build a miniscule version of the CELL B.E., PS1/PS2 logic vital for perfect execution of that software and a basic ARM chip; all on a tiny die made on modern processes. If we see future platforms move to chiplets this could be included as an extra chiplet. The issue of course would be having adaptive timings/latencies/clocks given that circuits would be much, much shorter on such a small die. I think I've said this before, but they could just get in at the base level and address the problem there -- sooner rather than later -- rather than expend vast resources on complex, imperfect software solutions that will require per-software checks and fixes. This chip could be sold standalone in a budget legacy console, as a marketable extra in Pro consoles (as an add-on chiplet on SoCs); and embedded in future Portables/Handhelds. This "PS123-PV" die could theoretically probably be <10% the size of a modern APU die in consoles.
Click to expand...
The ps5 pro should be 60 cus
 
MasterCornholio

MasterCornholio

Member
Gaiff said:
Right here, little buddy.

tggb71M.png
Click to expand...

Screwby Doo and the mystery van
 
Perrott

Perrott

Member
Audiophile said:
As for PS1/PS2/PS3/PSP/PSVita. I'd love to see them circumvent the entire issue of BC and just build a miniscule version of the CELL B.E., PS1/PS2 logic vital for perfect execution of that software and a basic ARM chip; all on a tiny die made on modern processes.
Click to expand...
They should take that mini Cell design that you mention and make a retro handheld that plays games from those five consoles (PS1/2/3 & PSP/Vita). It'd be the best companion to a PS5 or PS6, as these newer home consoles have backwards compatibility with everything from PS4 onwards.
 
Audiophile

Audiophile

Gold Member
playsaves3 said:
The ps5 pro should be 60 cus
Click to expand...
Not saying that won't be the case as they may deem it necessary and switch it up for their own custom chip, plus leaks so far seem to point to it (though I wonder if they're just referring to all CUs on the die and not the active units). But, the standard config for RDNA3+ with the 7880XT as an eg. is 60CU with all units enabled. Sony's approach has always been to disabled come Compute Units for yield. PS4 has 20CU with 18CU enabled, PS4 Pro & PS5 has 40CU with 36 enabled..

I'd expect an elegant continuation of this with 60CU on the die and 54 enabled. If it is 60CU enabled I expect that'd be with a 60CU die with all CUs active (maybe the yields are good enough to warrant it?). 64CU would be a more custom approach. Again, not saying it wont happen, but I'd think a more conservative 54/60CU setup would make more sense on a console, it'd afford them a little more room for the CPU to be a bit stronger (a larger win imo, as it'd help likely-CPU limited games like GTAVI get a better shot at 60fps) and/or they could get a slightly smaller chip, possibly even being able to run it a little faster (which if the front-end is the same in either design scenario, would be a win).

That said, all the "modes" regarding BC that I listed above would likely still work, they'd just be actively turning off 2SEs + 2CUs for base PS4 mode; and 1SE + 2x2CUS for all other non-PS5 Pro modes; and so on for latter consoles..

All the stuff I've listed above in the "thinking ahead" section is pure speculation to convey the elegance of a "multiples of 18" approach rather than an outright prediction.
 
Last edited:
Audiophile

Audiophile

Gold Member
Maybe 1 WGP per SE houses two Cell SPUs instead of CUs...

That'd mean 6, just like the PS3 had available to devs.

Coincidence..? I think not..!

...

:messenger_tears_of_joy:

/s
 
P

playsaves3

Banned
Audiophile said:
Not saying that won't be the case as they may deem it necessary and switch it up for their own custom chip, plus leaks so far seem to point to it (though I wonder if they're just referring to all CUs on the die and not the active units). But, the standard config for RDNA3+ with the 7880XT as an eg. is 60CU with all units enabled. Sony's approach has always been to disabled come Compute Units for yield. PS4 has 20CU with 18CU enabled, PS4 Pro & PS5 has 40CU with 36 enabled..

I'd expect an elegant continuation of this with 60CU on the die and 54 enabled. If it is 60CU enabled I expect that'd be with a 60CU die with all CUs active (maybe the yields are good enough to warrant it?). 64CU would be a more custom approach. Again, not saying it wont happen, but I'd think a more conservative 54/60CU setup would make more sense on a console, it'd afford them a little more room for the CPU to be a bit stronger (a larger win imo, as it'd help likely-CPU limited games like GTAVI get a better shot at 60fps) and/or they could get a slightly smaller chip, possibly even being able to run it a little faster (which if the front-end is the same in either design scenario, would be a win).

That said, all the "modes" regarding BC that I listed above would likely still work, they'd just be actively turning off 2SEs + 2CUs for base PS4 mode; and 1SE + 2x2CUS for all other non-PS5 Pro modes; and so on for latter consoles..

All the stuff I've listed above in the "thinking ahead" section is pure speculation to convey the elegance of a "multiples of 18" approach rather than an outright prediction.
Click to expand...
oh if it allows the cpu to be faster then lets go with 54 the biggest thing i want from the pro is a cpu upgrade
 
A

asdasdasdbb

Member
Perrott said:
They should take that mini Cell design that you mention and make a retro handheld that plays games from those five consoles (PS1/2/3 & PSP/Vita). It'd be the best companion to a PS5 or PS6, as these newer home consoles have backwards compatibility with everything from PS4 onwards.
Click to expand...

The point of the consoles is to sell games, new ones. BC is really just a crutch to have extra games to play (buy) between new releases.

Which is why I don't think it's a given that the PS6 will support PS4 games. Native PS5 games will be enough as filler.
 
Loxus

Loxus

Member
asdasdasdbb said:
The point of the consoles is to sell games, new ones. BC is really just a crutch to have extra games to play (buy) between new releases.

Which is why I don't think it's a given that the PS6 will support PS4 games. Native PS5 games will be enough as filler.
Click to expand...
I am completely at odds why you think the PS6 wouldn't be backwards compatible with PS4 games.

BC brings in added revenue from new gamers joining the ecosystem or gamers that upgraded to the PS6 that still have a couple of PS4 games to play.

It's not like BC is stopping the PS6 from using Zen7 or a new architecture from Zen.
 
Last edited:
A

asdasdasdbb

Member
Loxus said:
I am completely at odds why you think the PS6 wouldn't be backwards compatible with PS4 games.

BC brings in added revenue from new gamers joining the ecosystem or gamers that upgraded to the PS6 that still have a couple of PS4 games to play.
Click to expand...

Remember we're talking about 4+ years from now at a minimum. It wouldn't surprise me if PS4/PS5 crossgen is still around then but as long as there's a PS5 version, they would still be fine.
 
Last edited:
skit_data

skit_data

Member
Perrott said:
Tidux has always been full of shit.

Anything that comes out of his mouth should only be taken as comedy.
Click to expand...
Idk, he does seem to have at least some connections because he's gotten a few things right IIRC.
At least he doesn't throw new shit on the wall every week to see what sticks in the same way MLiD and RGT does.
 
Perrott

Perrott

Member
skit_data said:
Idk, he does seem to have at least some connections because he's gotten a few things right IIRC.
At least he doesn't throw new shit on the wall every week to see what sticks in the same way MLiD and RGT does.
Click to expand...
For over a decade Tidux has been the definition of throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks, or just parroting what other people say. Ask any long-time GAF poster, and they'll tell you the same thing.



Connections my ass.
 
skit_data

skit_data

Member
Perrott said:
For over a decade Tidux has been the definition of throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks, or just parroting what other people say. Ask any long-time GAF poster, and they'll tell you the same thing.



Connections my ass.
Click to expand...

Ouff okay, my bad. Yeah, I guess scratch those CU specs then, they are probably inaccurate.
 
TheRedRiders

TheRedRiders

Member
shamoomoo said:
Who is leviathangamer? Is he or she someone we can trust?

Also,the rumor is the Pro GPU is going be similar to the Series X,2 SE with 30 total WGP.
Click to expand...
He’s not a leaker and doesn’t claim to be one either.

He studies gaming hardware architecture at a degree level so he understands this stuff pretty well. A lot of his takes have aged well so I’m happy sharing his insights.
 
THE:MILKMAN

THE:MILKMAN

Member
onQ123 said:
Tidux is mostly full of it but 19-21TF is achievable by just taking the clock speed from 2.23GHz on PS5 to 2.5GHz - 2.8GHz on PS5 Pro if it's 60CU
Click to expand...

I guess but even at the lower end here it would be a 15% bump in clocks and even the PS4 Pro GPU barely got that even with going from 28nm to 16nm where there were bigger gains than with 6/7nm to 4/5nm.

They can well do it but at what cost and power consumption? I know many here don't care but a £600+ 250W console doesn't sit well with me.
 
S

shamoomoo

Banned
TheRedRiders said:
He’s not a leaker and doesn’t claim to be one either.

He studies gaming hardware architecture at a degree level so he understands this stuff pretty well. A lot of his takes have aged well so I’m happy sharing his insights.
Click to expand...
Interesting. Looking at the Series X GPU again and assuming the 2 shader engine bit is accurate then the Pro will have 32 WGP as 15 WGP isn't evenly divided by 2 SE, either the Pro has 28 WGP total or 32 WGP.
 
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