Your favourite Youtuber is back with another video.
Man I just can't listen to him.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
PS5 Pro devkits arrive at third-party studios, Sony expects Pro specs to leak
- Thread starter Bernoulli
- Start date
Man I just can't listen to him.
SkyHighTrees
Member
late 2024 its gonna happen, i am waiting for it, GT7 will be at the forefront of the PRO
Lagspike_exe
Member
GT7 is going to be insane if they can push the RTRT implementation a lot.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
I was never subscribed but used to listen to him. His voice is just so obnoxious and hard to listen to.
just watch the GT7 update trailers and intro, thats how it will look if it happens
Last edited:
Gudji
Member
Your favourite Youtuber is back with another video.
PS5 PRO 4K 120 FPS Monster:
SkyHighTrees
Member
Yeah, plus upgrades to LOD distance I guess
Chris_Rivera
Member
If they are truly using an upscaling solution, the resolutions wouldn’t necessarily be increasing. Dlss quality is essentially a game rendering 1440p, but I have doubts ml potential being vastly more advanced than ps5. I just wish they would start using VRR properly and unlock framerates consistently.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
A lot of it can be done between Sony and devs. Start using LFC and on VRR TVs with 120 Hz panels you are golden unless your game goes below 24 FPS.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
If you can fit foveated rendering in your pipeline it looks like devs are not having many problems fitting PS5 level graphics at 60+ FPS on PSVR2 already, but sure PS5 Pro could bump the resolution a bit and maybe framerate can go up to 90 Hz or more natively. The same exact visuals but running at 120 Hz native would be a boon for immersion.
Sure, it would mean that the PS5 Pro native 2D mode would look better and have higher quality visuals, but for VR it is the right tradeoff.
Physiognomonics
Member
Your favourite Youtuber is back with another video.
No AI upscaling for PS5 Pro confirmed!
Forget a LOD upgrade if the don't add more RAM.
mrBarrelNut
Member
Has there been any real chip leaks from those taiwanese twitter accounts? Usually we have been getting those well over a year before console releases.
If not, I'm sceptical of PS5 Pro happening this year.
If not, I'm sceptical of PS5 Pro happening this year.
asdasdasdbb
Member
Yes. Everything has leaked other than the GPU max clock and whether it's 56 or 60 CUs.
Last edited:
Lagspike_exe
Member
We don't really know much about the rumored RTRT / ML acceleration though.
Interfectum
Member
gaming forums waiting for specs to leak gonna be like:
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Havrnt kept up with this thread, but given whatever rumours seem reasonable, what is the final output estimated to be?
Can it do 4k/60fps/RT/High quality or better visuals?
Or is that asking too much?
Can it do 4k/60fps/RT/High quality or better visuals?
Or is that asking too much?
Last edited:
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Highly doubt they'll be that focussed on more RAM, as that complicates asset production pipelines and as a result is less likely to be supported by third parties.
My sense is that they'll prioritize minimal effort enhancements, like upscaling and RT options and additional GPU capacity.
That and not pushing price-point too far above PS5.
ChiefDada
Member
Highly likely. These locked 30 fps games on base PS5 are most likely able to run at 40fps or so during most gameplay. The jump from 40 to 60 requires 33% higher raster performance assuming raster bound.
Kazekage1981
Member
Im surprised there is no mention of SSD upgrade, since it was the center focus point for PS5
Daneel Elijah
Member
No new rumors outside of the youtubers like redgamingtech saying stuff like usual. We have been told repeatedly by
HeisenbergFX4
that it will not be a monster upgrade but more about RT and upscaling. 4070 equivalent have been said too, and it is pretty good to me already. So probably yes to your 4k60fpsRT but as always it will depend of the devs.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
I think Sony learned their lesson with Vita about trying to monetize storage. They might add a bit more capacity to the board, but given the fluctuating prices of solid state chips I think they'll leave it to the market to set prices and have people upgrade with whatever size of SSD they feel like.
As I said, changing core stuff risks breaking compatibility so I'd expect I/O to remain the same as standard PS5.
Imtjnotu
Member
Bro at this point we don't even know if it can make toast...
Come back when specs are out
D
Deleted member 848825
Unconfirmed Member
More RAM don't equate to a more complex asset production because devs aren't obligated to do more work. In fact it could be a solution to asset optimization. Games are developed with a base spec and scalable tech to adapt LOD on every single asset on different machines, so Ps5 pro could use the same assets as Ps5 with high LOD on distance without touching anything more than a few lines of code.
RT enhancement require far more work from the devs and of course more memory capacity and speed. More RT quality or complexity are related to bigger data structures and ray quantity, and those are heavy RAM eaters so you need more than what is available on the actual Ps5. If you only rely on compute power you can only improve precision and speed.
We have lots of Ps5 games suffering from streaming, LOD, texture loading problems because the low amount on memory and the lack of engines designed to take advantage of the SSDs and I/O technologies.
As I said before, if they pretend to enhance visual features as RT and AI upscaling then they are gonna need more RAM.
Imtjnotu
Member
SonGoku
Member
What i suggest is a boost made with a disclaimer the game might break, similar to PS4 Pro boost mode without dev support
Normal operation would be same as og PS5
What Will That Chip Cost?
Establishing the true cost to develop an advanced chip is complicated, but headline numbers appear to be significantly inflated.
semiengineering.com
For example from here, claims the cost to design a 5nm chip is 540 million
But it not cheaper because the R&D is factored into the price of each APU AMD sells to Sony, AMD does the R&D and prices their APU accordingly to make a slight profit. And of course being a leading node on demand adds to the cost
But if they already invest the 500 mill on the Pro APU could be smart to recycle that for a cut down version of it for a slim
That said i wont pretend to know about the ins and outs of manufacturing process costs and what you say about 5nm ending up more expensive despite everything else might well be true. Was just interested in discussing the possibility and posible counter arguments, which is why i tagged you.
Last edited:
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Nope. To make the extra ram worthwhile (beyond a small bump for bigger framebuffers), you need to have stuff to fill it. And new stuff to fill it requires new/better assets which need to be created and packaged. The PS5 I/O system already allows for arbitrary data to be pulled in anywhere from the SSD, so the benefits of more ram are outweighed by the additional hassle of maintaining a separate SKU.
Most importantly nobody outside of first-party has any impetus to spend the time building to a spec with an install base starting back at zero 4 years into a console gen!
Especially given how inflated budgets are already it couldn't be justified.
What is acceptable though is patching or building in hooks to enhanced system function, like custom upscaling or frame gen functionality. Basically "black-boxing" the new features (like the I/O stack) is the best way to encourage usage. This doesn't preclude setting aside extra resources (including memory) for things like RT, just not things like denser meshes and higher res textures as they simply aren't going to be implemented due to them failing cost/benefit for anyone not specifically committed to driving uptake of the new hardware SKU(s).
The bottom line is the more work it takes, the worse the support will be for a minority SKU. The hardware needs to fit into the overall development landscape because better results matter less than addressable market.
Last edited:
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Yeah, I don't expect too much in the way of I/O upgrade speeds until the actual next-gen.
SonGoku
Member
Dont do this to yourself, you are setting yourself up for disappointment
RDNA4 yes if its on the menu you can rest assured the PS5 Pro will get it
Thats a monster upgrade imo
RTX 4070 can pull off max settings with Path Tracing at playable framerates (30-40 fps) using DLSS quality. If the PS5 Pro has same RT capabilities and similarly good AI upscaling, it will be a really good upgrade
Last edited:
Daneel Elijah
Member
A man can dream. And as long as Sony best studios manage to do it I will consider the Pro a good deal. And GTA 6. For the rest we will have the PS6...Dont do this to yourself, you are setting yourself up for disappointment
RDNA4 yes if its on the menu you can rest assured the PS5 Pro will get it
Thats a monster upgrade imo
RTX 4070 can pull off max settings with Path Tracing at playable framerates (30-40 fps) using DLSS quality. If the PS5 Pro has same RT capabilities and similarly good AI upscaling, it will be a really good upgrade
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Because it is good enough and people’s engines have not maxed it yet. The Kraken unit can push up to 21 GB/s or just about and even if the compression ratio was bad, I am willing to bet many developers have a lot of work to do to fix their streaming pipelines (UE5 still struggles with streaming, RoboCop should have zero streaming issue for example… not even close).
Last edited:
AtomicStarving
Member
It's fascinating that Sony expects PS5 sales to slow down, when they are launching a PS5 Pro and GTA VI is coming only for consoles. Such a dumb expectation, if you ask me... what is wrong with them lol. GTA VI alone will sell a lot of PS5s.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Will sell a ton of Pros as well when its labeled the best place to play GTA6
Rocco Schiavone
Member
+Better be 60fps on the Pro.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
$700 is still WAY less than any good PC, so if $700 brings major performance improvements than why the hell wouldn't someone want that for an optional upgrade? Forget about whether it is a good business strategy for Sony or Not, a $700 console would be pretty cool in that it would be a truly significant upgrade capable of doing stuff that a $500 machine could never dream of.
Clearly you don't know what you are talking about.
You don't need to make new assets to fill the memory when is avalilable. Like on PC on consoles you can have different settings and the higher ones require more RAM, and of course implement those "blackbox" new features on hardware requires more memory to store the data needed to enhance the quality. Enhanced RT and AI upscaling aren't free on RAM space. The same goes for increased LOD on distant objects, bump to resolution, post process quality, VFX quality, etc.
Last edited:
Perrott
Member
There's nothing wrong with the claim they've made in that regard.
Last year was expected to be the peak of PS5 sales within a single FY - they had an expectation that said peak would be of 25M units, but they've now reduced it to just 21M - but expecting to have a slowdown of sales during the following periods doesn't mean that PS5 is suddenly going to drop to 4M units the following FY, instead they're likely expecting a decline to 19-20M, then 16-18M the year after, then 14-17M, 10-13M, and then 7-9M for the final fiscal period, during which the PS6 would arrive to the market in late 2028.
And if they were to follow a steady decline in sales along the lines of the figures I've suggested, then we'd be looking at lifetime sales that'd even surpass those of the PS4.
Last edited:
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Ok, now just take everything you said and scrap it. That doesn't apply to sony or MS.What i suggest is a boost made with a disclaimer the game might break, similar to PS4 Pro boost mode without dev support
Normal operation would be same as og PS5
Every tech article i read related to rising costs of going down manufacturing process nodes the biggest increase is chip design/r&dWhat Will That Chip Cost?
Establishing the true cost to develop an advanced chip is complicated, but headline numbers appear to be significantly inflated.
For example from here, claims the cost to design a 5nm chip is 540 million
But it not cheaper because the R&D is factored into the price of each APU AMD sells to Sony, AMD does the R&D and prices their APU accordingly to make a slight profit. And of course being a leading node on demand adds to the cost
But if they already invest the 500 mill on the Pro APU could be smart to recycle that for a cut down version of it for a slim
That said i wont pretend to know about the ins and outs of manufacturing process costs and what you say about 5nm ending up more expensive despite everything else might well be true. Was just interested in discussing the possibility and posible counter arguments, which is why i tagged you.
Sony or MS are not making or building any of these APUs from the ground up. They are buying them from AMD. Let me try and explain this...
AMD, does all their R&D for their respective technologies. The CPU, GPU, RDNA, infinity fabric, infinity cache, 3D cache, chiplets, ACE....etc. AMD is doing all that not even for Sony/MS (SMS), but because they make CPUs and GPUs. Now, SMS, comes in, and tells AMD that they want an APU. Mind you, AMD makes APUs too.. their xxxxG series of CPUs and what typically goes into AMD-powered laptops. So AMD will give them access to all their available technologies, we have this, that, that, this and that...etc.
All SMS are doing, is picking and choosing from already existing AMD technologies on what they want. The R&D cost to SMS here, is the amount spent buying one-off chips that ultimately doesn't make it into the final console. Eg. The chip you see in the PS5 on launch day, may very well have been revision 5 of that same chip. Now each revision would require at least one wafer of chips to be ordered. Sony can be paying AMD $18-25K for each of those wafers with about 80-100 chips on it. They put those chips through all sorts of testing, and can get back to AMD and say, hey can you swap the GPU from RDNA1 to RDNA2? AMD says fine, and the new wafer is paid for... designated revision 2....etc.
There may be a little extra spent here and there based on some very specific customizations, but nothing to the tune of $100s of millions.
So its not that you are wrong, its just that what you are saying doesn't apply to SMS. AMD could have spent $100s or millions developing RDNA, or RDNA3 or Zen...etc, but all SMS is doing is just buying the chip. Kinda the same way tesla could have spent hundreds of millions building or developing battery tech, but all you do is just buy a car.
paolo11
Member
Man I pray this is true. If ps5 pro can run 60 ps quality mode for ff7 trilogy and 16, I’ll be so happy
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
I'd say 99% happening. I think the same leakers/insiders who said the slim was coming are driving the leaks here. Considering dev kits are in the hands of 3rd partys now I'd say the only reason this doesn't happen is if something dramatic happens that drives up the cost to make the thing to a level where they couldn't launch it at an attractive price ($499-$649).
Perrott
Member
Of course. Performance modes in those titles are GPU bound, so the Pro should be able to offer higher resolutions at 60fps without breaking a sweat, at least as long as Square Enix does their job right.
Last edited:
asdasdasdbb
Member
TSMC N4P
8 Zen 2 cores, max 4.2 Ghz (same as Slim except 20% higher)
56 or 60 RDNA3 CUs, except it has a custom version of it with the RDNA4 Raytracing IP, max frequency unknown but unlikely to be that high
16 GB of 18 gbps GDDR6, 256-bit (same as Slim with 28% higher speed)
Presumably everything else (SSD, IO, etc) is the same as the Slim
Estimated to be $599 without the drive. Like the Slim you could buy the drive.
Can't really compare it to the 7700/7800 XT since there is no Infinity Cache.
Last edited:
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
We'll see. I think you're misunderstanding my point which is to say that the fundamental goal is to run the same code and assets as built for PS5 at higher framerates and upscaled to higher resolutions. Something that can be achieved without pushing the boat out on increasing the size of total RAM.
A conservative approach would be to, for example, bump the OS/System reservation off into its own area of extended RAM, releasing a couple of gig for additional buffers.
The reality is that better processing can yield more refined results within the same memory footprint, and as 8k isn't suddenly going to become a thing I doubt its even a case like the PS4 to PS4pro, where expected output resolution suddenly needs to double.
There's a bit more to it than just pushing sliders on a PC game and watching as the VRAM allocation spikes! Its still a closed system after all and one that is monumentally unlikely to receive titles expressly built around its capabilities.