Support NeoGAF

[SlimySnake]

Ds2 looks very high quality, buuut it's basically empty landscapes with high def rock formations in the promo material so far, and the parts with more vegetation honestly didn't look better than hfw which, as usual, looks to be a lighting limitation.

If this asset quality was paired with a pt lighting system ( maybe ps6) we'd just sit here with open mouths.

Kojima has already gone on record saying that his next gen game PSYINT will be photorealistic. I think they know this is probably a gen too early to hit photorealistic graphics.

My guess is that if he couldve done Matrix Awakens visuals with DS2, he wouldve. There is definitely a limitation, probably a hardware one. Maybe he really wanted to do 60 fps at a higher resolution like 1440p.

Of course, Amy might be at GDC next week showing off her photorealistic UE5 game that blows DS2 out the water, but we shall see.

 

[SlimySnake]

Never doubting kojima again. Forgive me sensei.

 

[Loboxxx]

Corridor vs open world

And you forget about the black bands and 30fps...

 

[vkbest]

Also weird they show it on base PS5 while they could easily show it on PS5 Pro or PC.

And the characters models still have those clay look to them. The skin doesn't look right, just like in the first game.


HB2 on XSX runs 1440P which is has the same power as a PS5 which will come also on the PS5. BM:W also runs 1440p internaly on the base PS5.

HB2 is a corridor and averaging resolution lower than 1080p

 

[Balducci30]

Kojima never disappointed me wow

Ok this looks sick - it also appears to have a full on fluid sim. I wasn’t impressed with the first trailer but this sold me

 

[GymWolf]

This new release is powered by MetaHuman
https://www.3lateral.com/portfolio/death-stranding-2

Then why they look so plasticky sometimes?

 

[SKYF@ll]

Then why they look so plasticky sometimes?

On PS5 (OG), adding more effects (lighting, shadows, DOF) may be too heavy to process. (target 60fps)
I have slightly edited the images to make them more realistic.
I can't wait to see the PS5 Pro version (or high-end PC) footage.

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

Then why they look so plasticky sometimes?

This is what I wa saying for a long time. Everyone talking about DS2 as its some second coming character details but it all looks plastic and game-ey. Not saying the game looks bad, just the fact that its so obvious you are playing something gamified and not real life looking as people are saying.

 

[GymWolf]

On PS5 (OG), adding more effects (lighting, shadows, DOF) may be too heavy to process. (target 60fps)
I have slightly edited the images to make them more realistic.
I can't wait to see the PS5 Pro version (or high-end PC) footage.

I doubt it's a filter thing but who knows.

 

[SlimySnake]

This is what I wa saying for a long time. Everyone talking about DS2 as its some second coming character details but it all looks plastic and game-ey. Not saying the game looks bad, just the fact that its so obvious you are playing something gamified and not real life looking as people are saying.

that guy looks awful. But the rest of the cast is absolutely fantastic.

 

[Represent.]

What the fuck is this?!!?

man I LOVEEEEEEEE CHINA

These first timers are ELITE

 

[metareferential]

What the fuck is this?!!?

man I LOVEEEEEEEE CHINA

These first timers are ELITE

Did they forget the textures? xD

 

[Represent.]

Did they forget the textures? xD

Work In progress

You can see how it’ll look in the video thumbnail

I’m more pleased about the animations and environment interaction

 

[GymWolf]

that guy looks awful. But the rest of the cast is absolutely fantastic.

Weren't you kinda trashing ds2 characters not long ago when sh2 remake came out?

Like in this very topic.

I don't think they got any upgrade since the last trailer...

 

[FalconPunch]

What the fuck is this?!!?

man I LOVEEEEEEEE CHINA

These first timers are ELITE

Even the title has Korean characters.. Referencing China on this title is wild.

 

[SlimySnake]

Weren't you kinda trashing ds2 characters not long ago when sh2 remake came out?

Like in this very topic.

I don't think they got any upgrade since the last trailer...

The new characters revealed today look great. Dakota fanning looks meh. George Miller and Leah Seydoux always looked great. Sam looks better.

Everyone outside of James and the little girl looks off in SH2, but James looks CG at times.

 

[GymWolf]

The new characters revealed today look great. Dakota fanning looks meh. George Miller and Leah Seydoux always looked great. Sam looks better.

Everyone outside of James and the little girl looks off in SH2, but James looks CG at times.

Don't you think fragile looks a bit waxy?

Also i don't know if i'm going crazy. but ome of the characters in the trailer sometimes look good sometimes worse, the dude in your avatar look meh in the first scene of the traielr when he speak with the other dude but good in the finale, and the chick with him look worse when he speak with him in the beginning but in the bit when they show her name she look great, i rewatched the trailer 4 times and i can't quite say if i like these faces or not.

And they all look a bit waxy, their skin doesn't look super natural like aloy or senua.

The president look the best of the bunch.

 

[Xtib81]

If anything, I'd say that character rendering in the least improved visual feature of DS2. They already look incredible in DS1 and I can't say they look photorealistic in DS2.

 

[SlimySnake]

Don't you think fragile looks a bit waxy?

Also i don't know if i'm going crazy. but ome of the characters in the trailer sometimes look good sometimes worse, the dude in your avatar look meh in the first scene of the traielr when he speak with the other dude but good in the finale, and the chick with him look worse when he speak with him in the beginning but in the bit when they show her name she look great, i rewatched the trailer 4 times and i can't quite say if i like these faces or not.

And they all look a bit waxy, their skin doesn't look super natural like aloy or senua.

The president look the best of the bunch.

When you replay DS1 again on the Epic Game Store, take some screenshots of Mads Mikklesen during the World war 1,2, and vietnam sections. Then compare it to the flashback in the finale when you see him trying to escape with Sam. The lighting in the hallway makes him look so much more realistic. it's a nice and day difference.

Point is that lighting conditions can make or break these character faces.

I am not getting a waxy feel. Maybe its not photorealistic like the Matrix but i think its excellent.

 

[GymWolf]

When you replay DS1 again on the Epic Game Store, take some screenshots of Mads Mikklesen during the World war 1,2, and vietnam sections. Then compare it to the flashback in the finale when you see him trying to escape with Sam. The lighting in the hallway makes him look so much more realistic. it's a nice and day difference.

Point is that lighting conditions can make or break these character faces.

I am not getting a waxy feel. Maybe its not photorealistic like the Matrix but i think its excellent.

I don't know, i can go for great but excellent?

this is excellent

I mean, just look at the teeth on senua and the dude in your avatar, skin, teeth, facial expression, skin deformation, lips, everything is superior.

I don't think they are even on the level of aloy tbh.

 

[SlimySnake]

Now Aloy looks waxy to me. She's a lot more cartoony than characters in DS2.

Hellblade 2 is just in another league of course.

 

[GymWolf]

Now Aloy looks waxy to me. She's a lot more cartoony than characters in DS2.

Hellblade 2 is just in another league of course.

Crazy talk

I challenge you to find a female in ds2 with such detailed pores.

 

[rofif]

Crazy talk

I challenge you to find a female in ds2 with such detailed pores.

close up overdetailed pores. She looks like a 60yo.
Usual graphics trap of making it too sharp because more sharp = better.
Have you ever seen a human up close?
this horizon 2 image is oversharpened or something

 

[GymWolf]

I can't find better quality.

What impressive here is the geometry on the puppet, it looks virtually perfect.

 

[GymWolf]

close up overdetailed pores. She looks like a 60yo.
Usual graphics trap of making it too sharp because more sharp = better.
Have you ever seen a human up close?
this horizon 2 image is oversharpened or something

I'ts the game photomode, it is called microdetails, we all have pores if you look close enough dude.

only makeup or very young age make your skin look super smooth.

She has sun burn because she stay under the sun all the time, her skin is not the same as a super model.

 

[rofif]

I'ts the game photomode, it is called microdetails, we all have pores if you look close enough dude.

only makeup or very young age make your skin look super smooth.

She has sun burn because she stay under the sun all the time, her skin is not the same as a super model.

No it's just too much =/= better graphics. Death Stranding 2 could also have this microdetail.
I know that photomode very well. I've taken hundreds of pics.
horizon2 is amazing looking game. you won't find me shitting on it.
I just don't hink that macro photography proves anything.

These are my shots from the same game and she is not looking like 60yo with make up.

I can't find better quality.

What impressive here is the geometry on the puppet, it looks virtually perfect.

Is this AI upscaled? Where did you find such high res pics?
Yeah that puppet looks sick.
Lea sedux <3

 

[GymWolf]

No it's just too much =/= better graphics. Death Stranding 2 could also have this microdetail.
I know that photomode very well. I've taken hundreds of pics.
horizon2 is amazing looking game. you won't find me shitting on it.
I just don't hink that macro photography proves anything.

These are my shots from the same game and she is not looking like 60yo with make up.

Is this AI upscaled? Where did you find such high res pics?
Yeah that puppet looks sick.
Lea sedux <3

Maybe depends on the level of zoom\angle\light condition\resolution? i never used photomode in my life.

 

[littlezoo]

To be honest, in terms of character rendering, Hellblade 2 is still on another level. The characters in DS2 have a bit of a silicone doll-like feel, and their subtle facial expressions aren’t as natural as those in HB2

Additionally, although HB2 is more linear, its environments don’t look any worse—just less overly sharpened.

 

[analog_future]

To be honest, in terms of character rendering, Hellblade 2 is still on another level. The characters in DS2 have a bit of a silicone doll-like feel, and their subtle facial expressions aren’t as natural as those in HB2

Additionally, although HB2 is more linear, its environments don’t look any worse—just less overly sharpened.

Yep, Hellblade blows DS2 away.


Completely different games though with completely different scopes.

 

[littlezoo]

plus, there was a game last year called Black Myth Wukong.

 

[GymWolf]

After this 1-2 combo, someone need to post the city scene with the cars compared to even robocop or black hawk for the finishing blow

You don't even need wukong for a better jungle, 3+ years old crossgen horizon is enough to destroy any jungle that is not avatar or wukong.

waxy my ass

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

Rarely post in this thread, but I've made a couple of gifs with Snake (Luca Marinelli) since out of all the characters in the new DS2 trailer, this one really caught my eye.

I think Kojimbo and his team did really impressive work with his model, facial capture, and the lighting in these scenes.

 

[Kaiserstark]

To be honest, in terms of character rendering, Hellblade 2 is still on another level. The characters in DS2 have a bit of a silicone doll-like feel, and their subtle facial expressions aren’t as natural as those in HB2

Additionally, although HB2 is more linear, its environments don’t look any worse—just less overly sharpened.

3Lateral who also worked on Hellblade 2 said on their work on DS2 for the purpose of this project, they have calibrated MetaHuman facial assets with additional likeness data derived from 4D scans and scan-based texture sets.

One game is an open-world and the other one is a really limited experience but which allows them to push visual fidelity to the max on console.

For exemple i expect Marvel's1943 : Rise of Hydra to look pretty impressive but it will also be quite limeted on what you can do on the gameplay aspect.

I don't know if Black Myth Wukong has been updated on the base PS5 but at the launch, i would not have recommended to play the game on console.

 

[coachmcguirk91]

Kojima has already gone on record saying that his next gen game PSYINT will be photorealistic. I think they know this is probably a gen too early to hit photorealistic graphics.

My guess is that if he couldve done Matrix Awakens visuals with DS2, he wouldve. There is definitely a limitation, probably a hardware one. Maybe he really wanted to do 60 fps at a higher resolution like 1440p.

Of course, Amy might be at GDC next week showing off her photorealistic UE5 game that blows DS2 out the water, but we shall see.

People in this thread don't want to acknowledge it, but I believe every first party Playstation game will be targeting 60fps. An argument could be made that DS2 could be 30fps and it wouldn't hurt the game too much. Sony has made it quite clear to value performance over fidelity this generation, which isn't wrong, imo

 

[GymWolf]

That neil dude looks so strange to me (not talking about the gifs, i mean in general)

I don't know if it is the high fidelity mixed with over-acting or instruments who can't replicate super micro expressions so they come strange or the smooth\lucid skin, it just make my uncanny valley sensor tick like crazy, none of the other characters make me feel this way.

His acting his not as natural and smooth as ellie in tlou2.

I think ND is still the best when it comes to digital acting.

 

[SlimySnake]

plus, there was a game last year called Black Myth Wukong.

Wukong's Forest Level is like Snake Eater. It's a bunch of small areas stitched up together. The open world area in Chapter 6 doesnt have forests as detailed. Just not a fair comparison.

Plus, its a direct feed screenshot whereas the DS2 footage is from a youtube stream.

Here is what Avatar, the current king of forest looked like in youtube trailers.

And Horizon

DS2 has similar lighting to both Avatar and HFW albeit slightly more muted in comparison. the shadowing on the tree branches looks phenomenal and on par with Wukong and Avatar. Wukong will always win on ground level detail thanks to nanite and I hope GG figures that by out by the time Horizon 3 comes out in 2027.

Still, I think DS2's forest will impress when people see it running natively.

 

[SlimySnake]

People in this thread don't want to acknowledge it, but I believe every first party Playstation game will be targeting 60fps. An argument could be made that DS2 could be 30fps and it wouldn't hurt the game too much. Sony has made it quite clear to value performance over fidelity this generation, which isn't wrong, imo

I think people in this thread are the only ones who acknowledge Sony studios are left behind while most outside of this thread is under the dated assumption that Sony first party titles (and I include DS2 in this since its funded by sony) are literally the best in class. The poll calling DS2 the best looking game shows this. Here, people have played Hellblade 2, Wukong, Avatar on high end PCs and know that it falls behind in many aspects, likely due to the 60 fps target. But also because nanite is missing.

DS2 actually has some fantastic looking assets and materials, especially indoors but you can see that outdoors especially the ground level detail is behind UE5 games, and thats straight up nanite. you can only push so much detail in open world areas without completely bottlenecking the GPU or VRAM.

It's not wrong to target 60 fps, but you cant have both. They have to relinquish their crown to random chinese developers and third parties, and settle for being second best.

 

[NomenNescio]

I think people in this thread are the only ones who acknowledge Sony studios are left behind while most outside of this thread is under the dated assumption that Sony first party titles (and I include DS2 in this since its funded by sony) are literally the best in class. The poll calling DS2 the best looking game shows this. Here, people have played Hellblade 2, Wukong, Avatar on high end PCs and know that it falls behind in many aspects, likely due to the 60 fps target. But also because nanite is missing.

DS2 actually has some fantastic looking assets and materials, especially indoors but you can see that outdoors especially the ground level detail is behind UE5 games, and thats straight up nanite. you can only push so much detail in open world areas without completely bottlenecking the GPU or VRAM.

It's not wrong to target 60 fps, but you cant have both. They have to relinquish their crown to random chinese developers and third parties, and settle for being second best.

While in pure technical features they might fall behind, in terms of overall visual impression I still believe Sony first party is best in class. What is shown in this trailer (environments, level of detail, art direction) is so much more visually appealing to me than anything Wukong can do on a 5090.

And there are aspects in Sony FP that are technically untouchable by other studios. Naughty Dog's animations for example. Look at the facial expressions in Intergalactic, there's just no one else that is at that level, not even Rockstar.

 

[SlimySnake]

Putting these side by side and they are actually very close. Skin shading is roughly the same. I guess the real life actors and a more realistic color pallete makes DS2 look more real.

 

[SlimySnake]

While in pure technical features they might fall behind, in terms of overall visual impression I still believe Sony first party is best in class. What is shown in this trailer (environments, level of detail, art direction) is so much more visually appealing to me than anything Wukong can do on a 5090.

And there are aspects in Sony FP that are technically untouchable by other studios. Naughty Dog's animations for example. Look at the facial expressions in Intergalactic, there's just no one else that is at that level, not even Rockstar.

Yeah, i said something similar in the other thread. When taken overall, DS2 is doing a lot more things and doing them spectacularly. HFW is a great example of this. When it came out, it didnt just do a fancy looking jungle, it had great looking cutscenes, great water tech, fantastic character dialogue sequences, and some of the best character models to date.

That said, ever since HFW, and its been three years, Sony studios have pretty much phoned in. Spiderman 2, GOW ragnorak, and astro bot dont hold a candle to stuff thats released since. Callisto, Alan Wake 2, Avatar, Hellblade 2, and Wukong are all in another league with only Demon Souls and HFW, and i guess now Death Stranding 2 able to compete with third parties.

 

[Represent.]

Still think Intergalactic has the better faces.

DS2 looks great, but there is something straight up.... waxy about them. Like there isnt enough detail in the skin. This straight up looks better.

 

[littlezoo]

HB2 is still on another level.

 

[GymWolf]

Still think Intergalactic has the better faces.

DS2 looks great, but there is something straight up.... waxy about them. Like there isnt enough detail in the skin. This straight up looks better.

Her jacket is more impressive than her face.

 

[GymWolf]

HB2 is still on another level.

Only sony fanboy and legally certified blind people can think otherwise.

For characters face rendering we are actually reaching diminishing returns even if i hate to admit it, and ds2 fragile pic i posted before vs this senua pick is kinda of a generational difference if we consider that character face almost reached photorealism already so there is not much to improve.

 

[coachmcguirk91]

Only sony fanboy and legally certified blind people can think otherwise.

For characters face rendering we are actually reaching diminishing returns even if i hate to admit it, and ds2 fragile pic i posted before vs this senua pick is kinda of a generational difference if we consider that character face almost reached photorealism already so there is not much to improve.

In terms of photorealism, I would agree, but the art direction of DS2's characters are much more pleasing on the eye

 

[GymWolf]

In terms of photorealism, I would agree, but the art direction of DS2's characters are much more pleasing on the eye

Disagree, i still think some characters skin is too smooth and lucid and their acting is not on naughty dog level so it came out a bit uncanny valley territory to me, and i'm not a fan of using so many famous actors for a videogame, i see it as kojima fondling his willie because he can have famous people repeat his cringe ass lines in a videogame and feel important because of that, sorry not sorry.

At best i can give you that the women in ds2 all look cuter than senua, so in that sense they are more pleasing to the eye, they really roughed up the actress and she over-act a lot so she looks even uglier when she emote in that game.

 

[Magik85]

Shortest lasted throne ever.

Really? Assuming no delay, this game will release over 2 years after HB2...

 

[RodriGames40]

Really? Assuming no delay, this game will release over 2 years after HB2...

HB2 released in May 2024, how come?

 

[Magik85]

HB2 released in May 2024, how come?

I stand corrected.
Somehow i was convinced its June 2026 xD
My bad ;-)

 

[DanielG165]

HB2 is still on another level.

Yep. Anyone who has seen Hellblade 2 in-person knows this to be true, and not even subjectively so lol. Because of the game’s scope, Ninja Theory were able to absolutely PUSH the visuals to the maximum across the board. There were tons of moments during my playthrough where I literally believed I was looking at offline renders, both for the characters, and the environments. And, they managed to accomplish all of this without cutting once.

If ever you want to see something truly impressive, watch one of the environment transitions in this game, and how the level of fidelity is completely and utterly maintained, despite the camera flying across the scenery. There’s no pop-in, no geometry weirdness, it’s just… There. Like, I don’t mean to gush nor “glaze” this game, but it will most definitely be some time yet before we see another title usurp HB2 across the board. Death Stranding 2 does not, and now could it? These games have different scopes.

DS2 looks incredible, there’s no denial there, but HB2 was literally made to squeeze graphical fidelity as far as it could be squeezed, and it achieved that mission statement.