Support NeoGAF

[IbizaPocholo]

Developer Provides Insight on their Deal with Xbox and Game Pass

Xbox Game Pass has disrupted the industry with its subscription style gaming and has provided a tremendous boon for the Xbox Division. However, details on

seasonedgaming.com

Xbox Game Pass has disrupted the industry with its subscription style gaming and has provided a tremendous boon for the Xbox Division. However, details on the relationships between Xbox and the developers whose titles land on the service, have been scarce.

Thankfully the developers of Unto the End, a husband and wife duo, spoke out on an episode of the Dual Screens Podcast that aired Thursday. Stephen Danton had the following to say:

I don’t know what other deals are, they give you a lump sum of money on release, which I guess is offsetting or in anticipation of whatever you would sell it for if you were on a store. For us, there is no bonuses nor royalties for playtime or how many people we have on there.

For us, it’s a chunk of money when we give the game to them on day one. We’re exclusive with Xbox Game Pass for six months. So what that means for us, is that we couldn’t have the game on Apple Arcade for that time period. It can be on Steam and on Sony and stuff like that as a normally purchased item, either physical or digital, but not any other streaming/subscription-based service.

Danton spoke further about subscription services and made the inevitable Netflix comparison, then continued…

The fear is that a PUBG or something becomes the most highly sought after thing bar none, and all subscription services have is different variants of PUBG. And then there’s no room for any other games because it doesn’t make monetary sense for them.

That’s the fear. But for right now, it’s been absolutely amazing to have Xbox with the vote of confidence. We get that little bit of financial support, get to interact with those guys, and they show our games off at events. For Sarah and I, it’s been absolutely amazing. I can’t say enough about that opportunity, and they’ve been great to work with.

 

[MizzyLone]

Yeah..... i dunno i have been on game pass ever since it launched. I want the devs to make more money and come up with new ideas to make those ideas but at the same time i don't want to over pay for a shitty game that i have no idea is good or not and this service helps me make that decision and in all honesty, let's me afford games that i can't afford but want to play.

 

[MasterDerico]

Yeah..... i dunno i have been on game pass ever since it launched. I want the devs to make more money and come up with new ideas to make those ideas but at the same time i don't want to over pay for a shitty game that i have no idea is good or not and this service helps me make that decision and in all honesty, let's me afford games that i can't afford but want to play.

Indeed i use gamepass as a demo for games. If i liked, i buy.

 

[darkinstinct]

Indeed i use gamepass as a demo for games. If i liked, i buy.

Same. To play first party titles and to demo other games.

 

[MizzyLone]

Indeed i use gamepass as a demo for games. If i liked, i buy.

I only buy some multiplayer games or the ones that are good and are leaving the service. So far this has been the best Microsoft has offered to the Gaming Community. Yeah the Console is shit in all honesty but the services are what defines Microsoft at this point.

 

[DoctorEkkoUK]

interesting to hear how it works, I suspect the deal varies based on the size of the game/publisher. I'm sure some bigger games are getting a royalty payment per download or something along those lines in addition to an up front payment.

 

[Mista]

So, people that has their games on XGP actually gets a chunk of money?

Oh no how? I thought XGP is bad for developers because they don't get money

 

[Whitecrow]

"We are not burning money"
Yeah Phil, of course : )

 

[deriks]

It's the same as Netflix, basically

 

[SuperLupeRap]

Where are the armchair devs to tell us how devs are terrified and suffering because of Gamepass? Because we really need their opinion! Forget real devs.

 

[trikster40]

So, people that has their games on XGP actually gets a chunk of money?

Oh no how? I thought XGP is bad for developers because they don't get money

I don’t think people think it’s Bad for developers; rather, it seems to be an unsustainable business model similar to MoviePass.

I know Microsoft has tons of cash, but if they’re forking out more money to put games on GamePass that they are making from GamePass, the fear is that the cost is going to balloon one day.

Cant keep giving GanePass for $3 for 3 years and tons of money for games without the well running dry at some point.

 

[The_Mike]

"We are not burning money"
Yeah Phil, of course : )

Does it really matter for the consumer if it benefits them?

 

[Whitecrow]

Does it really matter for the consumer if it benefits them?

I was pointing out Phil's PR BS.
I didnt say anything about consumer's benefits : /

 

[pr0cs]

Sounds like the dev is happy, as I subscriber I'm happy thus far.
To me the biggest question is can they keep the quality up as the service matures?
Gta5 is a good step, keep getting top tier titles including 3rd party and gamepass will be a key differentiator for next gen

 

[Ten_Fold]

I mean I figured they would give money up front to keep it only on their streaming service for a while. It's like netflix.

 

[Deleted member 774430]

Pretty much what i knew already.

It's profitable for the studios now because Microsoft pays everyone upfront and pays very well.

The question is: is that profitable for Microsoft? or is this just a way to get both developers and consumers in? what will happen once those prices start to go up or they start to pay devs less? I guess we won't know until it happens.

 

[wolffy71]

$3 for 3 years is nothing if you can get a gamer on board for 15 years. On that note I wonder what the average time a customer stays a paying customer for MS and Sony. 15 years seems realistic.

 

[Screamer-RSA]

So, people that has their games on XGP actually gets a chunk of money?

Oh no how? I thought XGP is bad for developers because they don't get money

Game Pass is only bad for developers if you only play on PSN.

 

[mckmas8808]

Does it really matter for the consumer if it benefits them?

Yes it matters if one day some MS executive decides to stop funding gamepass in this way.

 

[Pejo]

Sounds like the lump payment and the exposure are great for indies and small studios. I wonder what kind of deal AAA publishers get though, that's always been the more interesting question.

I don't personally sub to Gamepass, but as long as it doesn't replace other methods (as in getting Gamepass exclusive games), I have zero problem with it. Seems like a great value to people that don't buy a lot of games or just want to try stuff out.

 

[Fun Fanboy]

I couldn't care less for the devs if they're crying about this. They signed up for it. They're making their money (the whole point of making a game) and they're getting/gathering fans for a possible future game and enjoying watching people play their game that maybe those people wouldn't even give a second look at normally.

In the end. They're getting paid and game pass is stellar.

 

[The_Mike]

Yes it matters if one day some MS executive decides to stop funding gamepass in this way.

Why? It is a renting service.

 

[mckmas8808]

Why? It is a renting service.

That's not how some people are viewing it. Some people actually think consoles will be a thing of the past and not be made anymore.

 

[The_Mike]

That's not how some people are viewing it. Some people actually think consoles will be a thing of the past and not be made anymore.

Well, game pass needs a Xbox or a pc. It's not a streaming service like stadia.

 

[wolffy71]

Sounds like the lump payment and the exposure are great for indies and small studios. I wonder what kind of deal AAA publishers get though, that's always been the more interesting question.

I don't personally sub to Gamepass, but as long as it doesn't replace other methods (as in getting Gamepass exclusive games), I have zero problem with it. Seems like a great value to people that don't buy a lot of games or just want to try stuff out.

You would have to think that the devs of Gears or Sea of Thieves have enough power to get terms that they find more favorable. If that means $ per download or game time idk but they probably negotiate on terms a good bit more than indies.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Yes it matters if one day some MS executive decides to stop funding gamepass in this way.

I figure they'd probably get sponsors on board to buy into supporting the platform financially in a cooperative way if they don't want to float their own cash into it as heavily.

Of course, that'd probably mean the sponsors getting some type of cut from game revenue on the service, which could technically work if done right. But they would have to artificially limit the amount of sponsors for any given time and put them in rotation, maybe set up blocks of shares they can bid on to purchase in return for sponsorship and a slice in game revenue.

Would probably also mean the offer'd expend beyond just Gamepass, but that's all backroom corporate stuff I don't know or care about xD.

 

[CeeJay]

You would have to think that the devs of Gears or Sea of Thieves have enough power to get terms that they find more favorable. If that means $ per download or game time idk but they probably negotiate on terms a good bit more than indies.

They're first party devs, you think they get their revenue streams in exactly the same way as a third party?

 

[ethomaz]

You would have to think that the devs of Gears or Sea of Thieves have enough power to get terms that they find more favorable. If that means $ per download or game time idk but they probably negotiate on terms a good bit more than indies.

Do you meant own MS get own terms with MS?

Gears and Sea of Thieves devs only get the pay check every month no matter if MS get profit of not from the game sales.
Maybe there is a bonus to employees if the game did better than the targets but that is all.

 

[Vawn]

So, people that has their games on XGP actually gets a chunk of money?

Oh no how? I thought XGP is bad for developers because they don't get money

No, it's great for developers. No longer do they need to make games worthy enough to sell, just good enough to qualify for, "meh, it's included on Game Pass, I guess I'll download it".

It's bad for consumers who care mostly about quality.

 

[HaveButOneLife]

Does it really matter for the consumer if it benefits them?

Not Microsoft, no. But for devs, it hurts potential sales that could have went into another game, unless I'm missing something.

(Not knocking Game Pass, I'm subscribed).

No, it's great for developers. No longer do they need to make games worthy enough to sell, just good enough to qualify for, "meh, it's included on Game Pass, I guess I'll download it".

It's bad for consumers who care mostly about quality.

How is that great for the developers? They're a business too, and more game sales mean more games, that's what comes with success.

Maybe Microsoft pays money periodically to developers? All I can think of, and I'm sure there's more to it than me just simply saying they're losing sales, maybe putting the games on Game Pass helps sell the games.

 

[Mista]

No, it's great for developers. No longer do they need to make games worthy enough to sell, just good enough to qualify for, "meh, it's included on Game Pass, I guess I'll download it".

It's bad for consumers who care mostly about quality.

Oh so the games library on XGP aren't quality?

Xbox Game Pass Games Library | Xbox

Explore the Game Pass library and play hundreds of games.

www.xbox.com

You're a joke. Shove the Switch in your throat and keep quiet

 

[The_Mike]

Not Microsoft, no. But for devs, it hurts potential sales that could have went into another game, unless I'm missing something.

(Not knocking Game Pass, I'm subscribed).


How is that great for the developers? They're a business too, and more game sales mean more games, that's what comes with success.

Maybe Microsoft pays money periodically to developers? All I can think of, and I'm sure there's more to it than me just simply saying they're losing sales, maybe putting the games on Game Pass helps sell the games.

Well the games will eventually get off and then you can buy them with a little discount.

Also, with gamepass, some might try the game just because it's on the pass and would never buy it normally. Then they buy dlc etc.

So no devs don't lose money on it. Otherwise they'd bail out. They aren't forced at gun point.

 

[wolffy71]

They're first party devs, you think they get their revenue streams in exactly the same way as a third party?

Well no. I should have used bigger devs that aren't 1st party as an example. My point was more that bigger studios probably get different deals than these smaller indies. And that they have enough influence to negotiate their own terms. Smaller devs, its probably take it or leave it, cookie cutter terms.

 

[wolffy71]

Well the games will eventually get off and then you can buy them with a little discount.

Also, with gamepass, some might try the game just because it's on the pass and would never buy it normally. Then they buy dlc etc.

So no devs don't lose money on it. Otherwise they'd bail out. They aren't forced at gun point.

I've spent, probably a few hundred, on dlc for games I never thought I would ever buy from game pass games.

 

[EverydayBeast]

It will be a couple of years for streaming video games to take off, Gamepass is not the same thing as Hulu or Netflix.

 

[Vawn]

Also, with gamepass, some might try the game just because it's on the pass and would never buy it normally.

Finally. Something we can agree on.

It is made for theaters vs tv movie/straight to DVD.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Finally. Something we can agree on.

It is made for theaters vs tv movie/straight to DVD.

I don’t think that’s what he meant.

Had it not been for PC GamePass I’d have never played Slay the Spire. Now I’ve bought a Switch and Xbone copy. There’s nothing wrong with the quality of the game. It’s got nothing to do with that dumb straight to DVD junk you spew in every GamePass thread. But if GamePass didn’t exist I wouldn’t have even tried the game. Same with Children of Morta. Another amazing game that I wouldn’t have gotten a feeling for by watching videos.

Clearly you’re mistaken about the types of games you can find on GamePass.

 

[HaveButOneLife]

Don't know why this is being compared to TV when video games have monumentally more value, and Game Pass is more than just a demoing service, it's a full-on trove that's very cheap at that (so of course I'm skeptical about some things because to people like me it's too good to be true or not without a catch).

Well the games will eventually get off and then you can buy them with a little discount.

Also, with gamepass, some might try the game just because it's on the pass and would never buy it normally. Then they buy dlc etc.

So no devs don't lose money on it. Otherwise they'd bail out. They aren't forced at gun point.

When you think about it, it's potentially x amount of millions of people who didn't buy the game. For a AAA game dev, losing 10k or even 100k players is nothing to them so they can afford it, but to an Indie dev? It must be a large sum of money.

I'm not saying they're being forced at gun point.

 

[Vawn]

I don’t think that’s what he meant.

Had it not been for PC GamePass I’d have never played Slay the Spire. Now I’ve bought a Switch and Xbone copy. There’s nothing wrong with the quality of the game. It’s got nothing to do with that dumb straight to DVD junk you spew in every GamePass thread. But if GamePass didn’t exist I wouldn’t have even tried the game. Same with Children of Morta. Another amazing game that I wouldn’t have gotten a feeling for by watching videos.

Clearly you’re mistaken about the types of games you can find on GamePass.

Actually, Slay the Spire and Children of Morta is about exactly what I expect from GamePass, as that's about what I expect from Games with Gold and PS+. Just throw in AAA games once they are already selling for $10 physical.

 

[nikolino840]

Actually, Slay the Spire and Children of Morta is about exactly what I expect from GamePass, as that's about what I expect from Games with Gold and PS+. Just throw in AAA games once they are already selling for $10 physical.

The question Is...Is a good service for people Who own an Xbox?

 

[Vawn]

The question Is...Is a good service for people Who own an Xbox?

I own an Xbox and have no interest. But I guess it comes down to your own personal situation.

Do you want to spend the money for the games you want most? Or do you want to support a platform that encourages lesser budget games in order to save money?

 

[brap]

Where are the armchair devs to tell us how devs are terrified and suffering because of Gamepass? Because we really need their opinion! Forget real devs.

The armchair devs were already telling people it's good for devs. We really need their opinion when microsoft is in trouble!!!

 

[TaroYamada]

The question Is...Is a good service for people Who own an Xbox?

It's one of the best deals in gaming, I re-sub anytime there's a sale. I'm playing Forza Horizon 4 still, Ori and Untitled Goose Game. There's also Witcher 3 on there, which I already have on PC but if you're interested in playing it, it's a great game.

 

[nikolino840]

I own an Xbox and have no interest. But I guess it comes down to your own personal situation.

Do you want to spend the money for the games you want most? Or do you want to support a platform that encourages lesser budget games in order to save money?

Isn't the situation of grey market keys?

 

[phil_t98]

The armchair devs were already telling people it's good for devs. We really need their opinion when microsoft is in trouble!!!

Microsoft in trouble?

 

[brap]

Microsoft in trouble?

They were on neoraft dot kom. Somebody criticized them!!! GO THE PHILMOBILE!!!

 

[CeeJay]

I own an Xbox and have no interest. But I guess it comes down to your own personal situation.

Do you want to spend the money for the games you want most? Or do you want to support a platform that encourages lesser budget games in order to save money?

Let me frame that a different way. I have had a lot of fun from playing games on Gamepass that I would have otherwise completely overlooked. And on the flip side of that I have had a lot of disappointment from buying AAA games around launch off the back of widespread praise. I play video games for fun and enjoyment and I feel that I have got a lot more of that from a Gamepass subscription than from buying those "games you want most". AAA games may have the big budget and big production values but you rarely see them taking risks because there is too much at stake. I don't think that there is any doubt that if you want innovative and fresh experiences then you will have more chance finding that in indie games. The only problem with indie games is that there are a shit ton of them and you got to pick through a lot of bad ones to find the gems. Gamepass does two things well here. I get to try a lot of different games without having to buy them outright and secondly, the Gamepass team have done an amazing job getting quality content on the platform. It really is a win win. And to top that off, it also gets good AAA titles once the dust has settled that are still widely regarded as good many months after release. So, to answer your original question, I want to spend my money on games that I will enjoy playing regardless of whether they are AAA or not.

 

[SleepDoctor]

Oh no another positive thread/article on gamepass. Sony warriors rush in with your pitchforks

OT: Gamepass makes more games available to people who probably can't afford to buy so many games and also give a possible bigger audience for games that may not be on everyone's radar. Especially for those who have to start scraping up pennies from now to buy a console at launch.

The same "self righteous" fanboys saying "its bad for gaming". "They burning money" etc etc... are most likely the same who didn't seem to have an issue modding their ps2, psp, 360 to get free games.

 

[Deleted member 471617]

Already knew this because how else would Microsoft gets games on Game Pass? Publishers sure as hell aren't going to do that for nothing. Despite having Game Pass Ultimate until September 2020, I still traded in my Xbox One X a few months ago simply because after Gears 5, there's nothing left for me that I want to play.

In general, Game Pass is a great service but for me personally, if a game that I want to play is NOT day one, then it's worthless because im not waiting months/years just to see if the game im interested in eventually goes on the subscription service. So outside of Microsoft's first party titles since they're day one, only game that I played via Game Pass was Mutant Year Zero day one at the end of 2018.

So basically, while Game Pass is excellent and great value, it simply doesn't offer what I want which is to play the game day one.

 

[phil_t98]

They were on neoraft dot kom. Somebody criticized them!!! GO THE PHILMOBILE!!!

Still not making sense?