Support NeoGAF

[Pelta88]

"I also think it hurts sales. Because a lot of people just go in and try it, and they don't invest. If they don't like the first 10 minutes? That's it. Also, if you don't make the first 10 minutes amazing, maybe it's also a problem. I think [Game Pass] is okay. It's not my favorite. My favorite is the old premium model, where I sell you on some video, on big images and earn your $30. And then after that, I have to deliver. I don't need to get money out of you later."

Xbox Game Pass Hurts Sales, Says Dev Behind Xbox Game Pass Title

Somerville dev reveals how Xbox Game Pass hurt its sales.

www.gamespot.com

 

[Captain Toad]

Make a better first 10 minutes.

I doubt the people quitting that fast were ever considering buying your game in the first place.

 

[SlimySnake]

yeah. There is no incentive to go in and give the game a real shot.

Imagine if everyone quit demon souls after the first 30 minutes lol. it took some people 5 hours to get through to the first boss back in 2009.

 

[Sweden85]

Gamepass is for the zoomer..They don't have enough attention for one game..they need them all.. for *free*. Hail leader Phil Spencer.

 

[feynoob]

Don't accept money from MS then.

 

[CherryFalls]

No it doesn't

 

[Lasha]

These posts are always annoying. I click through and the game is always some average indie game. I reckon that making mediocre games hurts sales more than being on gamepass since most players will just ignore your game.

Somerville Reviews

Jumpship’s debut title immersse players in a hand-crafted narrative set across a vivid and rural landscape. Set in the wake of a catastrophe and grounded in the intimate repercussions of large-scale conflict, players navigate through perilous terrain as they unravel the mysteries of Earth’s...

www.metacritic.com

 

[SmokedMeat]

I don’t think there’s a definitive yes or no answer to whether Game Pass hurts or helps sales. Some developers have said they’re happy, and they’re all obviously collecting a payment to put their game on the service.

If it’s not working out the way you hoped, then don’t make any future deals.

 

[justiceiro]

"Sell you one video, on big images"

Yeah, the industry could do without those types.

 

[Dr_Ifto]

yeah. There is no incentive to go in and give the game a real shot.

Imagine if everyone quit demon souls after the first 30 minutes lol. it took some people 5 hours to get through to the first boss back in 2009.

I bought it around release, and quit before beating the first boss. I quit for 9 months before someone told me how to play the game. Now its one of top 5 games ever.

 

[Abriael_GN]

.... says the dude that made an irrelevant small game that he originally wanted to release on Stadia.

It's hilarious to see what kind of people certain sites will cite in order to stir some cheap controversy for clicks.

 

[feynoob]

Edit:
I thought it was something series.

 

[Kacho]

What game is he talking about here? Somerville? Never heard of it until now.

Anyway I think putting a game on Game Pass is very much a ymmv situation. I agree with him in preferring the traditional model though. IMO Game Pass devalues gaming because there’s no real investment from the subscriber. It’s the same issue with the plethora of content on Netflix. If your movie doesn’t grab me in the first few minutes I assume it’s a stinker and move on to something else. Vs when I rent a movie, I’ll give it a full watch because I paid for it.

 

[The Cockatrice]

Ah yes the dev that made that one hit game where all you do is go right on the screen which indie hippies love and shockingly he made another of that trash and surprise surprise, the fad is over. Make better games sucker. Dont blame the service.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Make a better first 10 minutes.

I doubt the people quitting that fast were ever considering buying your game in the first place.

Or make the game engaging and worth people's time to buy it.

EA games go on EA Play every year. Mostly at the predictable 9 month mark. I dont think too many FIFA, Madden and NHL fans wait till next year when it's on GP.

Also, if sales are gimped on GP it make sense. A ton of people paid a sub plan to play it and the dev got paid out a giant lump sum or whatever agreement they got.

My favorite is the old premium model, where I sell you on some video, on big images and earn your $30. And then after that, I have to deliver. I don't need to get money out of you later."

In other words, no GP download, no demo download, no beta test. Try to sell gamers on marketing and hope gamers bite.

 

[feynoob]

Ah yes the dev that made that one hit game where all you do is go right on the screen which indie hippies love and shockingly he made another of that trash and surprise surprise, the fad is over. Make better games sucker. Dont blame the service.

How was the shaky camera? I saw some game play mode from the reviewers.

 

[FoxMcChief]

I’m left thinking three things.

Make a more compelling intro.

How are sales on other platforms, compared to the number of players that played it on game pass.

How much money have you made from other platforms, versus what Xbox paid you for game pass.

 

[The Cockatrice]

How was the shaky camera? I saw some game play mode from the reviewers.

Dont think its an issue. It's a 2-3 hour game or so. You can finish it in one sit.

 

[SportsFan581]

Don't accept money from MS then.

Basically end of discussion right there. Developers that believe in the subscription model and achieve an acceptable financial result from it will continue to support and those that don't simply won't. It really works in both directions as well, because loading up on games that users quit after the first 10 minutes isn't doing much to ensure MS keeps those recurring $ coming.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

"I also think it hurts sales." Hard-hitting journalism from Gamespot. Maybe it does and maybe it doesn't. We really don't know. I also think it depends on the game, too. Sea of Thieves does not become a success without Game Pass. I'm sure that game received improved sales. Descenders is another that is claimed to have benefited in sales. Maybe for something like Redfall, it hurts.

 

[Bry0]

People who don’t invest in the first 10 minutes probably weren’t that interested at the start. Seems like a way to conflate potential sales for lost sales. Those people probably wouldn’t have tried it otherwise or paid any attention to the “video or big images”. Really need data over a “feeling” for this statement to be worth anything.

 

[DenchDeckard]

You mean that game that didn't end up too well and reviewed less than any one would want.

If I'd bought it I would been pissed.

 

[T_T]

All of these can be arranged with contracts. If Game Pass starts having disproportional impact to sales, then studios should ask more cash upfront from Microsoft the next time at the negotiation table. If Game Pass gains more subscribers the same should apply.
The thing that devs should be mindful of and study in great detail are the GP stats that Xbox is willing to provide to them.

 

[Mr Hyde]

I know I'm an anecdotal example but I subbed to Game Pass for HiFi Rush and Pentiment, played them both for one dollar and then unsubbed. If more people behave like me, I can't see the service being sustainable, even if you keep doing that without the one dollar try out (which, iirc, MS doesn't offer any longer). But, since the games were so good, I ended up buying them on Steam (on a sale) so I guess it do add up in the end.

I do the same on Nintendo Switch. I keep signing up for the 7-day trial, play a couple of NES and SNES classic and then nope out. I ain't paying for that shit. But if Nintendo would offer me a choice to buy them, I would. So Ninty is losing money here whereas MS don't.

Sonys crap service I ain't even gonna bother with.

 

[TommyCronin6969]

"I'd rather trick people into playing my game from deceptive trailers than them actually playing my game"

 

[FoxMcChief]

Article name is definitely not click bait.

 

[Thirty7ven]

I’m left thinking three things.

Make a more compelling intro.

How are sales on other platforms, compared to the number of players that played it on game pass.

How much money have you made from other platforms, versus what Xbox paid you for game pass.

The only thing that matters, literally, is how MS distributes GP revenue. Nothing else.

MS might pay a fee now to get your game on GP, but that doesn’t tell you anything about how they intend to run the revenue distribution. If downloads are what matters then there must be payment per download. If time spent on a game is what matters, then revenue is split through hours played.

We already know GP is eating hard into software sales on Xbox. There’s a standard fee applied to game sales, so I would love to know how does it work through GP.

 

[Adam_802]

More like their game just sucked lol

 

[ManaByte]

Dev of shitty indie game blaming the distribution instead of himself for making crap.

 

[feynoob]

All of these can be arranged with contracts. If Game Pass starts having disproportional impact to sales, then studios should ask more cash upfront from Microsoft the next time at the negotiation table. If Game Pass gains more subscribers the same should apply.
The thing that devs should be mindful of and study in great detail are the GP stats that Xbox is willing to provide to them.

They get upfront money.
Like you said, demand more money, if they are afraid of loss sales.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Of course it hurt sales, that’s the point isn’t it? He also says it was a “good deal”, meaning the payment they got for the game to be on GamePass was good.

But playing for ten minutes and quitting doesn’t mean a lost sale.

At least he didn’t go as far as the Oddworld guy who made it seem as if every download on PS+ was a lost sale.

 

[PillsOff]

I doubtful bout this "Gamepass good for game sales" narrative being sold to us here n there BUT

You game was no Knack yo

Calm the fuck down

 

[wolffy66]

Anyone claiming that GP always effects all game sales the same way is being dishonest.

There's no doubt that I've played gamed on GP that would have absolutely never bought. Gamed that I later bought map packs or dlc for.

There's also games that I definitely would have bought if they didn't go to gamepass.

It's gotta come down to how good the game is ultimately. Do I need to buy it after game to keep playing it? Or is it a kinda shallow quick game that is one and done.

Does it have good DLC? Or a lasting player base. Was it advertised adequately or did they go cheap?

There's a lot of factors that need to be considered on a per game basis.

Overall I think if it's a good game, you're gonna do well.

 

[THE DUCK]

Completely ignores the probably 90% of people that would have never even looked at the game at all.......espessially on a game like that. You can't argue it only hurt sales if you ignore all the benefits it brought at the same time......

 

[quest]

If this is the case then steam and Microsoft refunds should be banned with this logic if someone doesn't like the first bit of the game they refund it hurting sales lol.

 

[winjer]

He is talking about the sales of Summerville, a game that has a 64% user score on Steam.
In this case, it's obvious that most pleople tried it, saw it was a subpar game and went to play something better.
I bet with this game there were also several people that returned it withing the 2 hours Steam gives for refunds.
Seems to me this guy was just trying to catch consumers unaware of a bad game.

 

[Iced Arcade]

"Because a lot of people just go in and try it, and they don't invest. If they don't like the first 10 minutes? That's it"


I dunno, sounds an. Awful lot like you made a shitty game and are mad people didn't get duped into it.

 

[DrFigs]

He's probably right, but also, why not make the first 10 minutes amazing too?

 

[Black_Stride]

Hes assuming Gamepass hurt sales, but assumes if he sold his game with a trailer (no one was gonna watch cuz no MS marketing deal) and NOT put it on Gamepass it would have done better?

Well lets see that trailer:




Literally no one saw that trailer and thought to themselves "DAY FUCKING ONE".

I bet more people gave the game a chance and actually bothered to finish it because it was on Gamepass and Microsoft giving it a marketing push.
He got the Gamepass money and free marketing.
The game is 4-5 hours long and cost 30 dollars and isnt in the same league as Inside which clearly he was hoping this would match............im not sure what this guy was expecting, he must be a Square Enix exec cuz it did fine for what it was....probably more than fine because of the extra marketing push it got from Microsoft.

 

[HTK]

Put Call of Duty on GamePass and watch subscribers grow.

 

[bender]

With access to so many titles via services like Game Pass, a strong opening hour is more important as players will never feel the same investment as when they purchase a title. I dropped that Benedict Fox game really quickly as the combat seemed dreadful. I was actually thinking about creating a thread on this subject to see how quickly players were willing to drop a title.

 

[Topher]

"Because a lot of people just go in and try it, and they don't invest. If they don't like the first 10 minutes? That's it"


I dunno, sounds an. Awful lot like you made a shitty game and are mad people didn't get duped into it.

Somehow I guess he doesn't understand how the refund systems work on Xbox and Steam either. Dude sounds clueless, frankly.

 

[Unrivaledx88]

This is common sense, I could’ve told the dev that

 

[M1chl]

Somerville was trash and it came out at the same date as Signalis, you know what to play in that scenario...

 

[Ozriel]

The Gamepass deal got his game a well received trailer at E3, watched by tens of millions.
Not GP’s fault it landed to 6/10 reviews and has a mediocre user rating on Steam.

There’s no scenario where it would have sold well in this case.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

It's a mess.

 

[01011001]

yeah. There is no incentive to go in and give the game a real shot.

Imagine if everyone quit demon souls after the first 30 minutes lol. it took some people 5 hours to get through to the first boss back in 2009.

not sure about demon's souls since my first souls game was Dark Souls, but I got it "free" with GwG back on 360 and it grabbed me in less than 10 minutes. and that's a similar situation I think, since I had it as part of a subscription model.

if a game is kinda shit or not my cup of tea is often very easily discernable in less than 10 minutes for me.

 

[DeepEnigma]

People buy into the BS PR supply. MS already admitted to the CMA from internal documents that it cannibalizes sales, and we have monthly sales charts and splits to show what platform's base is being conditioned to not buy games anymore. The splits are growing and charts are dropping at a rapid pace.

.... says the dude that made an irrelevant small game that he originally wanted to release on Stadia.

It's hilarious to see what kind of people certain sites will cite in order to stir some cheap controversy for clicks.

Says MS themselves to the CMA and the monthly sales charts showing the splits grow and grow to PS2 era levels at a vapid pace.


This isn't a coincidence.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Make a better first 10 minutes.

I doubt the people quitting that fast were ever considering buying your game in the first place.

games should be 6-10 hours then

 

[ClosBSAS]

lol its made me buy games and made me not buy some. redfall is a perfect example of a gamepass game that will help you decide. in my case, its a big nope. i wanted wo long but then i sae the performance and played it on GP and decided not to buy it on steam...thank you gamepass.