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[Diablos]

Dead character or transformed?

Wikia seems to say it best.

The decision of the change happened when the development team come up with the idea of making one single game and immediately realizing how reduced the role of Stella was in the original setting, so they decided to expand her role further and make her a more active character, changing her identity and role in process. Within the overall theme of "journey," the developers also needed to decide the position a heroine should take, and thought that rather than having a passive heroine who needs to be saved, a more determined heroine who actively engages with the events in the story would suit better, and to play that role they thought they needed a different character.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Lunafreya_Nox_Fleuret

I'd say it's more of a transformation, but they also decided to alter her look a bit and give her a new name as well and that's their call. Still, in simple terms Luna = Stella but going down a different path with an altered look. They look very similar. That's how I see it anyway.

 

[DangerMouse]

Noctis' family were basically the fucking Yakuza

Now it's just generic royalty

Godamnit I wanted Versus so bad

Yup. Not that more generic royalty is bad but this was one of the unique touches that made Versus stand out.

I'm really looking forward to XV but I completely agree, the loss of that aspect to Regis and his kingdom is something I really miss.

Was that ever a thing? In the 2nd trailer for Versus ever we can see Regis and his counselors, but the only difference is that they wear suits instead of ceremonial robes - but here's the thing though, there's 12 of them, to parallel the Knights of the Round theme that's only recently been revealed as kind of a thing. Isn't it possible that much less has changed about Lucis than we think did?

It's not so much that they were going to act like them IMO (since they probably weren't and Regis was clearly always supposed to be a heroic, caring dad, as he still is in FFXV, as evidenced by the scene with him and young Noctis eating and him lecturing Noctis about the cook losing his job if he were to complain), but that they looked the part and gave off that vibe that the king and his council were much more slick and modern than what's taken its place. It made Regis and Noctis' kingdom really stand out.

Bullshit. He burned through money for years wasting time deciding which cutscene should be real-time or prerendered. I'm not saying it was entirely his fault; just mostly.

This thing you think happened never happened. This wasn't his first game let alone big game with cutscenes or anything. That whole "which cutscene should be real-time or prerendered" was clearly him covering the company's ass in the end, needing shit to talk about to imply the game was making progress even while Wada had his entire staff working fixing the other teams' games.

When asked about the Versus XIII protagonist, Stella Nox Fleuret, the Final Fantasy XV director explained that there's no point on talking about her anymore. "We will talk about Versus XIII in the future if we think it would benefit the fans or us, but there are currently no plans to keep releasing information about this project".

Translation: Tabata fucked up taking her out of the game as she's still one of the most talked about characters and seemingly it continues that comparably no one gives a shit about Luna even after a whole 3 years he's had to build up hype for the game, despite the us technically "knowing more about her" argument.

 

[Falk]

The difference here is that the pre-production stage was very transparent to us and Squeenix was inexplicably pitching pre-production trailers to consumers as if it were a game in active development.

Hold up a second. While I don't have any particular comment about vsXIII over what has already been said, the difference here is Nomura is known for doing this. Making awesome concept trailers, and then figuring out how the heck he's going to integrate them into the game.

Kingdom Hearts secret movies for its early part by and large were a similar modus operandi, for better or worse. I'm not saying whether I think it's a smart idea in general, but there actually is a precedent for this, for a different franchise.

If the FFXV team looked at the face-off scene and couldn't find a way to write it into the story, then it's better if it's cut than ham-fisted in.

I'm pretty sure Nomura would have found a way to make it work (as per his modus operandi) but I straight up feel that a lot of changes being attributed to 'the FFXV team' would have taken place anyway in some alternate dimension where Nomura had remained in charge instead of being moved to other projects, solely due to the change of the game's place in the Final Fantasy franchise in general (spinoff -> mainline, in simple words)

Translation: Tabata fucked up taking her out of the game as she's still one of the most talked about characters and seemingly it continues that comparably no one gives a shit about Luna even after a whole 3 years he's had to build up hype for the game, despite the us technically "knowing more about her" argument.

... Do you have any kind of metric for reference here?

 

[Styles]

Poor Tabata.

 

[MegamanXZero]

Poor Tabata.

Poor Stella.

 

[Ray Down]

Poor Stella.

Poor pile of pixels

 

[NoctisVsStar]

Poor Tabata.

Game is good = he already had the foundation set by Nomura
Game is bad = Nomura's versus would've been better.

In all honesty he's in a lose lose situation.

 

[Haint]

Will we ever learn what happened with the real FF15?

 

[Frumix]

Glad to see my Japanese studies have not been completely in vain. I can confirm there is some top notch punnage going on here.

Rehashed wholesale from the first thread we learned about Stella's excision.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=166424225&postcount=316

 

[DangerMouse]

... Do you have any kind of metric for reference here?

Not really. Just that he's never not going to be asked about her. Just general comparing how often they are talked about in threads on various message boards, how often either of them come up in interviews, etc.

It might not be accurate but it certainly feels like there's a lot less buzz and curiosity or fervor for more information and discussion on Luna (aside from in comparison to Stella) and this is after 3 years of watching the actual game develop in lots of dev diaries and multiple trailers for building the game's hype. Stella had people buzzing for more info every time from 3 story trailers. He hasn't exactly done a great job at building up why Luna's supposed to be awesome and anticipated aside from saying she's strong-willed, even though she's the one character that naturally gets the most critical/controversial attention since it's the one he changed.

 

[KeyChainDude]

Lame response, dunno why I even expected something different lol. Now I'm sad about not ever having Versus XIII again

 

[LelouchZero]

What the... I thought they were the same game?

Wikia seems to say it best.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Lunafreya_Nox_Fleuret

I'd say it's more of a transformation, but they also decided to alter her look a bit and give her a new name as well and that's their call. Still, in simple terms Luna = Stella but going down a different path with an altered look. They look very similar. That's how I see it anyway.

Yeah that makes sense, kind of strange to see the story in a game change so drastically though, I hope for the best.

 

[Manu]

What the... I thought they were the same game?

They are, in the same way Fuse and Overstrike are the same game.

I hope the game ends up being better than Fuse though.

 

[jimmypython]

Frankly, I think he's annoyed that people are still asking about Versus XIII despite already explaining what happened to Versus XIII. I would be annoyed too. Versus XIII is dead and FFXV was created out of its remains. MOVE ON PEOPLE. I like getting a peek behind the curtain as much as the next person but there's no real end game to this probing for answers about why Versus XIII was canned and what stuff from that game made it into XV.
Maybe a build of Versus XIII will leak one day but even then based on everything we've ever heard about Versus XIII it sounds like it was barely ever even something resembling a playable game. At some point the Versus XIII we were introduced to was scrapped and it sounds like they basically started over. The game became something so dramatically different that they eventually renamed it.

Maybe the reason why ppl keep asking about VersusXIII is they don't like what they have seen of XV or what Tabata had done to them (lying about Stella etc etc). Just sayin'

They are, in the same way Fuse and Overstrike are the same game.

I hope the game ends up being better than Fuse though.

Except they are not. Tabata literally said it. XV has nothing to do with VersusXIII, besides some character/location models and names.

Versus was 25% done before development ceased. Tabata met with Nomura to talk about the transition, what ideas/characters would be carried over etc.

Key word is transition.

My understanding: Nomura was finally about to make VersusXIII (after XIII disaster and XIV and type0). Then he was told by the company to rename it to XV. He agreed and wanted to make it a trilogy. The company didn't like the idea and replaced Nomura with Tabata. Tabata got a chance to "show" his talent and went COMPLETELY off rail of what Nomura/Nojima wanted to do. The rest is history.

In short Nomura never got the chance, thanks to the sucky Toriyama, Kitase, XIV 1.0., and most importantly the idiots who run the company.

 

[Diablos]

What the... I thought they were the same game?

Versus was 25% done before development ceased. Tabata met with Nomura to talk about the transition, what ideas/characters would be carried over etc.

Key word is transition.

 

[Honey Bunny]

Except they are not. Tabata literally said it. XV has nothing to do with VersusXIII, besides some character/location models and names.

Could you link to the quote that was this blatant? Not seen it.

 

[LelouchZero]

Versus was 25% done before development ceased. Tabata met with Nomura to talk about the transition, what ideas/characters would be carried over etc.

Key word is transition.

Wow, very interesting.

I hope this game is good, I love Final Fantasy but I have mixed feelings about what I've seen of XV. I'll definitely be getting it day one but I don't want to hype anything.

 

[jimmypython]

Could you link to the quote that was this blatant? Not seen it.

It was in one of the earlier ATRs if I remember correctly

 

[Liquid_015]

It was in one of the earlier ATRs if I remember correctly

Your avatar makes me sad, man. :'( #neverforget #OGregis

 

[Diablos]

Wow, very interesting.

I hope this game is good, I love Final Fantasy but I have mixed feelings about what I've seen of XV. I'll definitely be getting it day one but I don't want to hype anything.

Say you have a job where your management gets canned and replaced by new management. The new crew operates within the same program but with a different vision. As time goes on you start to see that despite physically working in the same place with perhaps some core concepts intact in some way, you for the most part feel like you have a new job. That's kind of what happened with Versus->XV.

 

[Rebel Leader]

Poor vs13 =(

 

[Inuhanyou]

Personally speaking, he should have said this at the very beginning when he took over for Nomura and not hype people up about how he was delivering FFV13, when we never could have realistically gotten FFV13 because of SE's incompetence at managing their products last gen.

I think it would have been better to leave Versus's shell in the past instead of bringing the assets back for another game, because it may end up more incomplete than if they had started from scratch, if anyone gets my point, especially after they take out the original creative directors and people who envisioned the project.

As for information about Versus 13, i think Nomura should be the only one to speak on what happpend, but he never will, either because he's contractually obligated or just doesn't want to bother at this point.

 

[jimmypython]

Your avatar makes me sad, man. :'( #neverforget #OGregis

Yep this is precisely what's appealing about Nomura. He can come up with a king as Stylish Yakuza . Tabata's "Vision" is just some generic old dude with a cane (yeah a cape too!)


I may wear this avatar until Nomura has made a mainline FF game (XVII?).

 

[mrpeabody]

What a colossal waste of resources and talent. S-E should sue itself for negligence.

 

[Inuhanyou]

What a colossal waste of resources and talent. S-E should sue itself for negligence.

The sad part is, many times its not the developers themselves who are to blame but the upper management not even in game design, yet they still get shitted on. Even Tabata right at this very second is a victim of trying to balance FF15 with Versus 13 concepts that are not really what Nomura wanted but are similar enough so that fans think they are the same.

Tabata is hamstrung by higher ups who demanded Versus 13 assets be used after they canned the project so investors don't lose confidence in all that time they spent mismanaging the company last gen.

So he's basically stuck trying to make a game out of random parts of another game that was never his to begin with instead of being able to make his own fresh project.

 

[Frumix]

The sad part is, many times its not the developers themselves who are to blame but the upper management not even in game design, yet they still get shitted on. Even Tabata right at this very second is a victim of trying to balance FF15 with Versus 13 concepts that are not really what Nomura wanted but are similar enough so that fans think they are the same.

Tabata is hamstrung by higher ups who demanded Versus 13 assets be used after they canned the project so investors don't lose confidence in all that time they spent mismanaging the company last gen.

So he's basically stuck trying to make a game out of random parts of another game that was never his to begin with instead of being able to make his own fresh project.

This. They have a task to make a game that sorta kinda looks like all the stuff they've put out over the years that was never a game. A certain degree of messups is inevitable.

 

[BlueTsunami]

The whole VS reveal nostalgia some people have strikes me as weird. What did we really know about Stella? Who was she really? What did Tabata doooo to herrrrr...

https://youtu.be/gdmHHoI9beM

 

[Liquid_015]

Yep this is precisely what's appealing about Nomura. He can come up with a king as Stylish Yakuza . Tabata's "Vision" is just some generic old dude with a cane (yeah a cape too!)


I may wear this avatar until Nomura has made a mainline FF game (XVII?).

Don't do this to me, every time I see OG Regis I just want to cry. Don't Toleoring. Save me.

 

[Inuhanyou]

This. They have a task to make a game that sorta kinda looks like all the stuff they've put out over the years that was never a game. A certain degree of messups is inevitable.

I actually think nomura was the one who got off the easiest in this situation. He got free from making a bastardized version of his original concept, having to tone it down for younger audiences

(he said at one time that being a spinoff, Versus 13 allowed him to go more creatively crazy and push the limits more than a numbered title would, because that came with larger expectations and mass market appeal)

and i think they let him direct FF7R as an apology note of sorts to wasting his time over all those years without really letting him make the game he wanted too.

So he gets to ride the hype train of SE's most successful and well known single game of all time, while also overseeing his student Tai Yasue in KH3's long awaited production.

Meanwhile, Tabata is the one who will unfairly feel the pressure of Versus fans forever if this game doesn't turn out a certain way, and will also be the one responsible for the failure of a mainline FF title if things go south. He's not in an enviable position creatively.

The whole VS reveal nostalgia some people have strikes me as weird. What did we really know about Stella? Who was she really? What did Tabata doooo to herrrrr...

https://youtu.be/gdmHHoI9beM

I don't think its really productive to hate on Versus fans or Nomura, even if you want to support FF15. That is not how you stop arguments about this kind of thing. Its being petty.

We saw a concept and a vision for a game that looked really interesting and captivated many audiences, and Nomura unfortunately never got to complete that vision because of general logistical fuckery that was the entirety of SE last gen.

Tabata comes in and is basically forced to change, remove and basically redo countless things to make a single game they can push out easily and with the least amount of hassle with a portion of the assets left over from Versus, its no wonder some people would feel bitter about the situation even now.

But i think that's no reason to hate Tabata, just like its no reason to attack Nomura, things happend the way they did because of evolving circumstances that could not be avoided and we should all deal with what we have now, like the end result or don't like it.

 

[Tyaren]

Tabata must be so annoyed always justifying his decisions and at the same time not throwing Nomura/Nomura's vision under the bus by revealing that Versus XIII was just smoke and mirrors for a long time. All that fans are gushing about are some pretty CGI scenes especially made for the trailers. Stella was not fully worked out either. She was just a mere shell of a character. A pretty shell though.

 

[Kagari]

Yep this is precisely what's appealing about Nomura. He can come up with a king as Stylish Yakuza . Tabata's "Vision" is just some generic old dude with a cane (yeah a cape too!)


I may wear this avatar until Nomura has made a mainline FF game (XVII?).

Final Fantasy Versus VII.

 

[LouisaFerre]

I'm really thinking it would have been better if they never made Versus into FFXV. If we consider 2012 to be the starting point of FFXV's development as a current gen game, the dev cycle still comes out to 4 years. On top of that, regardless of whether or not Versus XIII as consumers thought of it existed in anything close to a playable product, the vast majority of what was used to promote that game is no longer present here, so it doesn't seem like the game will really even benefit from the hype people had for that.

If they made Versus into XV because they didn't have another game ready to show as the next numbered entry, it honestly seems like the dev cycle ended up being long enough that they may as well have just made a new game from the ground up anyway.

That's not to say that Versus should have been cancelled, but I definitely think things would have been better for everyone involved if they kept it small in scale. Honestly, I think it would have been best to just keep it as it's own IP. If the development wasn't working out, just make a 20-30 hour action game that took place entirely in Lucis, put that out there, and if it's received well continue the "original vision" with a series of mid budget action focused titles. Too much of Nomura and Tabata's time was wasted on a salvage project of a game that neither of them will be satisfied with.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Tabata must be so annoyed always justifying his decisions and at the same time not throwing Nomura/Nomura's vision under the bus by revealing that Versus XIII was just smoke and mirrors for a long time. All that fans are gushing about are some pretty CGI scenes especially made for the trailers. Stella was not fully worked out either. She was just a mere shell of a character. A pretty shell though.

The entire script of FFVersus 13 was completed from start to finish in 2008. To say she was a shell of a character and 'not worked out' is a false claim that doesn't make any sense.

Too much of Nomura and Tabata's time was wasted on a salvage project of a game that neither of them will be satisfied with.

Agreed.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

Can't lie FF7r is basically SE apology to Nomura, I do hope they let him do what he wants with it. Watch him deliver on that character switching action.

 

[Kagari]

Can't lie FF7r is basically SE apology to Nomura, I do hope they let him do what he wants with it. Watch him deliver on that character switching action.

It's already confirmed since PSX 2015.

 

[Blablurn]

I would like to know more :S

 

[LouisaFerre]

The entire script of FFVersus 13 was completed from start to finish in 2008. To say she was a shell of a character and 'not worked out' is a false claim that doesn't make any sense.



Agreed.

I'm kind of worried about how the stress of this project will impact Tabata's desire to continue working on the front lines. Type-Next looked really interesting, and I don't feel like we've really seen what he can do creatively, so it'd be a shame if he ended up moving to a more supervisory role before he really got to do something personal. I used to be worried about Nomura leaving SE or not doing much work as a director anymore, but judging by his reaction to FF7R, he seems like he'll be about that life forever, lol.

 

[Tyaren]

The entire script of FFVersus 13 was completed from start to finish in 2008. To say she was a shell of a character and 'not worked out' is a false claim that doesn't make any sense.

Some leakers (that got other stuff right) said exactly that. Stella was apparently scrapped pretty early from the project because she just didn't work out and wasn't fully worked out. Already when Nomura was still working on the game. It just took fans a long time to realize that, because of the long pause of any new material that was released and then a long period of wondering if Luna was actually the new Stella. The ATR where Tabata finally revealed that Luna took Stellas place isn't that far back actually. Just a little over a year. So for 9 years people were still gushing about her and holding out for her when she had been in fact scrapped already many years ago.

 

[vainglorious]

Can't lie FF7r is basically SE apology to Nomura, I do hope they let him do what he wants with it. Watch him deliver on that character switching action.

That's the wrong take away. Nomura doesn't entirely have free reign. Kitase is still the producer and Nojima is writing. FF7R has more to do with the original developers not getting any younger and finally biting the bullet.

 

[Kagari]

Some leakers (that got other stuff right) said exactly that. Stella was apparently scrapped pretty early from the project because she just didn't work out and wasn't fully worked out. Already when Nomura was still working on the game. It just took fans a long time to realize that, because of the long pause of any new material that was released and then a long period of wondering if Luna was actually the new Stella. The ATR where Tabata finally revealed that Luna took Stellas place isn't that far back actually. Just a little over a year. So for 9 years people were still gushing about her and holding out for her when she had been in fact scrapped already many years ago.

That leak isn't correct. That's all I'll say on it.

 

[Zukuu]

RIP my sweet princess Stella. You will be missed.

 

[LouisaFerre]

That leak isn't correct. That's all I'll say on it.

If we don't get a proper postmortem/ultimania, will you make a documentary on the development of this game?

Spoiler

please?

 

[Tyaren]

That leak isn't correct. That's all I'll say on it.

I know you have you sources too...but honestly...who to believe anymore?

 

[vainglorious]

That leak isn't correct. That's all I'll say on it.

Yooo what are you hiding

Not cool Kagari

 

[NoctisVsStar]

It's already confirmed since PSX 2015.

Lord Nomura never fails.

That's the wrong take away. Nomura doesn't entirely have free reign. Kitase is still the producer and Nojima is writing. FF7R has more to do with the original developers not getting any younger and finally biting the bullet.

He's not going to do a carbon copy of the original FF7, he said so. Elements will be changed.

 

[Kagari]

If we don't get a proper postmortem/ultimania, will you make a documentary on the development of this game?

Spoiler

please?

My dream project.

 

[Gorillaz]

Nomura definitely lucked out in all of this. After a decade of fuck ups investors don't care about vaporware passion products. There probably going to want a heavy seller off the jump. Him getting placed on a remake of the companys biggest product that he can reimagine in his own image was a god send.

Tabata is in a lose lose situation with this one

 

[vainglorious]

He's not going to do a carbon copy of the original FF7, he said so. Elements will be changed.

Nor should anyone expect him too. But it's not a vanity project by any means either. There's other developers from the original game involved.

 

[duckroll]

My dream project.

Why do all your dream projects involve shipwrecks?

 

[Inuhanyou]

Some leakers (that got other stuff right) said exactly that. Stella was apparently scrapped pretty early from the project because she just didn't work out and wasn't fully worked out. Already when Nomura was still working on the game. It just took fans a long time to realize that, because of the long pause of any new material that was released and then a long period of wondering if Luna was actually the new Stella. The ATR where Tabata finally revealed that Luna took Stellas place isn't that far back actually. Just a little over a year. So for 9 years people were still gushing about her and holding out for her when she had been in fact scrapped already many years ago.

As Kagari stated, that leak is false. Stella has been a fleshed out character as long as the skeleton of the story has been around. She was changed when Tabata took over because she didn't fit the alternate story and script he had devised to get the game out easily.

Its not just about her, i'm sure many characters roles were changed or diminished with the changes made, whether or not the characters themselves are still in the game or not. Some may even be slightly expanded like Dragoon lady gaining a name and everything.

That's the nature of development, and in a situation like this, it was expected to be the case. Doesn't mean there aren't people unhappy about the original vision never being able to be realized, or that they should not be allowed to be unhappy about it.