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[James Sawyer Ford]

No, not true at all. A PC is superior by default with cheap game prices, MUCH more game selection, refund, controller versatility, mods, free online and other features.

A high end PC means much better fidelity. Ray tracing, DLSS, ultra-wide screen, better framerate, better resolution, Nvidia Reflex etc. These are certainly not negligible...unless you only play on Playstation.

There is a reason why Steam's concurrent players record is constantly being broken, while Sony is still struggling to break PS2's record. Statistics don't lie. Numbers don't lie.

1. Disc games. Ability to buy used/sell, or rent is the cheapest place for game prices. Digital prices are set by the publishers, no difference for Steam vs PSN

2. It’s negligible for most games

3. You’re comparing concurrent user counts to unit sales, which is idiotic. Sony also boasts a general trend of growing MUAs, meaning their customer base is growing. It’s now nearly 120M each month.

But I guess those 120 million players are all just clueless about the obvious choice of having to suffer stuttering, tweaking, a more cumbersome environment to couch play, later game releases, and higher prices? It’s not a black and white decision; there’s pros/cons for each

 

[ArtHands]

1. Disc games. Ability to buy used/sell, or rent is the cheapest place for game prices. Digital prices are set by the publishers, no difference for Steam vs PSN

2. It’s negligible for most games

3. You’re comparing concurrent user counts to unit sales, which is idiotic. Sony also boasts a general trend of growing MUAs, meaning their customer base is growing. It’s now nearly 120M each month.

But I guess those 120 million players are all just clueless about the obvious choice of having to suffer stuttering, tweaking, a more cumbersome environment to couch play, later game releases, and higher prices? It’s not a black and white decision; there’s pros/cons for each

Nah, you're just being in denial now.

Disc games is pretty much dead. Numbers don't lie. Steam has much more players solely via digital games alone.

Those are certainly not negligible for most games, unless you're playing on consoles where you can't do anything except cope with those inferior fidelity.

Steam users are more than Playstation 5 unit sales. Fact. Playstation MUAs comprises of different generations with different sets of catalogue. A publisher can release a game on Steam which is playable across each and every PC players. Can't say for Playstation. Only a portion of that MUAs can play PS5 games. A PS4 player in that MUAs certainly can't play PS5 games.

Considering Steam have twice the players of Playstation 5, it is no surprising that Sony brings their AAA games over with enhanced fidelity.

If you want to play Playstation 5 games like Uncharted 4 or Spider-Man 2, Ghost of Tsushima, Horizon Forbidden West in their absolute best state, it is done via PC.

 

[adamsapple]

1. Disc games. Ability to buy used/sell, or rent is the cheapest place for game prices. Digital prices are set by the publishers, no difference for Steam vs PSN

I'm no PC gamer but even I can tell you that's wrong. The one massive advantage of PC storefronts over consoles is the variety. You can get a brand new game often $10 or $20 than full MSRP from key sites, and not even the widely-recognized Black Market sites like G2A.

Obviously renting/trading is cheaper and my personal preferred way as well, but for someone whose into the digital lifestyle, the above can be very enticing.

 

[Bieren]

PS5 has had some bangers. Best gen, naw. But then again, you couldn’t get one for a few years. Unless you’re a sucker for scalpers. How much did that hurt development and people’s perception.

 

[Donald mac Ronald]

Yup. Xbox on Switch 2 is going to be awesome.

Is this what losing the war has come to, batting for Nintendo .

 

[yogaflame]

Still the king even if PS experienced there Icarus moment due to earlier bad decisions on game development especially on live service and gaas focus? Wow just imagine if Sony PS is at its best.

 

[Badlucktroll]

I would say no because it looks like Konami came back this gen

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Why should customers care about this? I'm not masturbating to sales charts like some people here. I want high quality first party games in decent quantity - Something PlayStation was known for before.

PS5 so far is...

But.. but… the sales!!!

 

[Klayzer]

As a whole, the PS5 has been great. The real issue is "gaming enthusiasts" have become more and more bitter as they get older and seem to want to hate anything and everyone.

Hit the nail on the head. Gaming sites have turned into quasi-political forums, rather than game discussions.

 

[Killer8]

While yes, it's true that people "don't play sales numbers", the fact that sales numbers are higher than ever tells us that clearly what Sony are doing is immensely appealing to their customers.

We can argue back and forth about the quality of Sony's output compared to previous generations, but at the end of the day it doesn't actually matter that much. Factor in the following:

- still some decent first-party output (Astro Bot, Helldivers 2, Ratchet, Spider-Man, Horizon, Demon's Souls, Gran Turismo, God of War etc etc)
- absolutely fucking masses of multiplatform games, and normal people do not make as much distinction in their minds about exclusive vs non-exclusive games as you think
- nearly full backwards compatibility with PS4, often with upgrades, and gradually phasing in more PS1 and PS2 support as well.
- affordable entry price for the base model and a Pro model is available for richer people who want more
- various extra ways to play like PSVR2 (which is going on sale more often) and the Portal (which proved popular)
- the convenience of a plug-and-play console with dedicated UI and minimal friction in the way of getting into the game
- can also be used as a means to stream music and movies and acts as a Blu-ray player

I guess it's all meaningless though, because, as usual:

"muh PC"

 

[neocycle]

Has the XBOX Series X already cemented itself as the worst XBOX generation in history?​

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Has the XBOX Series X already cemented itself as the worst XBOX generation in history?​

I would say the Series S is behind the X just because of how it hamstrung devs trying to make games run on it

 

[nial]

I want high quality first party games in decent quantity - Something PlayStation was known for before.

PS5 so far is...

People should know the difference between Sony providing those games (Helldivers 2, Rise of the Ronin, Stellar Blade and Astro Bot just in 2024) and them not personally appealing to you.

 

[adamsapple]

But.. but… the sales!!!

Call of Duty franchise putting the best games of every year for so many years now.

What an incredible feat.

 

[Bojji]

People should know the difference between Sony providing those games (Helldivers 2, Rise of the Ronin, Stellar Blade and Astro Bot just in 2024) and them not personally appealing to you.

I don't play MP so HD2 is out of the picture for me but other games (other than AB) are not exactly "high quality" even by MC standards:

AB is GOTY caliber, SB is good and RotR is....? Average?

In 202x 7/10 game is like 5/10 in the past.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I don't play MP so HD2 is out of the picture for me but other games (other than AB) are not exactly "high quality" even by MC standards:

AB is GOTY caliber, SB is good and RotR is....? Average?

In 202x 7/10 game is like 5/10 in the past.

The only game that interested me in this list was AB as well.

 

[reinking]

Call of Duty franchise putting the best games of every year for so many years now.

What an incredible feat.

MS getting the work done for so long.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I don't play MP so HD2 is out of the picture for me but other games (other than AB) are not exactly "high quality" even by MC standards:

AB is GOTY caliber, SB is good and RotR is....? Average?

In 202x 7/10 game is like 5/10 in the past.

Astro Bot: GOTY
Helldivers 2: Multiplayer GOTY

Two highest awards you can get and Sony got them.

What other company put out anything close to this last year? It seems that Sony isn't only measured by other companies, but by itself, but not their average, but their best years only and not in practice to hold them to a high standard, but to shit on them.

What is a good score on metacritic? How many good games does Sony need to deliver in a year for you to consider it a good year for them?

 

[nial]

I don't play MP so HD2 is out of the picture for me but other games (other than AB) are not exactly "high quality" even by MC standards:

AB is GOTY caliber, SB is good and RotR is....? Average?

In 202x 7/10 game is like 5/10 in the past.

I mean, we can play the Metacritic game all you want. Where were all those 'high-quality' (by your standards) games that "Sony was known for" in 2014?

Going by Metacritic, Sony's output was objectively worse in 2014 compared to 2024.

 

[Rawbutt Jellybean]

Astro Bot: GOTY
Helldivers 2: Multiplayer GOTY

Two highest awards you can get and Sony got them.

What other company put out anything close to this last year? It seems that Sony isn't only measured by other companies, but by itself, but not their average, but their best years only and not in practice to hold them to a high standard, but to shit on them.

What is a good score on metacritic? How many good games does Sony need to deliver in a year for you to consider it a good year for them?

Yes, Sony is going to get compared to itself when the point of the thread is to compare Sony generations.

 

[Bojji]

The only game that interested me in this list was AB as well.

I did some comparison with PS3. Year 3 and 4 of both consoles with games with MC 85+ published by Sony

PS3:

*

* - published by Sony in Japan

VS. PS5

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I did some comparison with PS3. Year 3 and 4 of both consoles with games with MC 85+ published by Sony

PS3:

*

* - published by Sony in Japan

VS. PS5

Even if you throw MC scores out me personally I had more fun with those games on the PS3 then I have had with the recent PS5 games outside of AB which was a real treat imo

Helldivers 2? Even winning MP GOTY for me its by far not the best shooter out there. Looking at Steam it has 50k players in it and is getting cooked by a lot of much older shooters.

Stellar Blasé? Simply not my kind of game so that’s on me

RoTR? Generic Ghost of Tsushima (Which I thoroughly enjoyed)

 

[Bojji]

I mean, we can play the Metacritic game all you want. Where were all those 'high-quality' (by your standards) games that "Sony was known for" in 2014?

Going by Metacritic, Sony's output was objectively worse in 2014 compared to 2024.

2016-2017 for PS4 with 85+ published by Sony

Regression compared to PS3 but still 50% better than PS5.

 

[adamsapple]

MS getting the work done for so long.

The only accurate barometer from now on:

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I did some comparison with PS3. Year 3 and 4 of both consoles with games with MC 85+ published by Sony

PS3:

*

* - published by Sony in Japan

VS. PS5

You arbitrarily picked 85. Had you picked 90 it would have been 3 to 2.

You had been mentioning games above 80 and magically decided to jump to 85 instead... interesting, no? You also arbitrarily decided to pick two years, so you could leave out a ton of games released for PS5 whereas the PS3 struggled more in Years 1 and 2.

You also left off Final Shape, The Last of Us P1 Remake, TLOUP2 Remastered, Horizon Zero Dawn Remastered.

The bias is strong with you brother.

 

[nial]

2016-2017 for PS4 with 85+ published by Sony

Regression compared to PS3 but still 50% better than PS5.

Now compare PS4 in 2013-2015 versus PS5 in 2020-2022.

 

[TGO]

PSSR looks great in most games, all games look better on PS5 Pro, some are transformational and it’s still early days

Come on bro, that's not true at all.

 

[Bojji]

You arbitrarily picked 85. Had you picked 90 it would have been 3 to 2.

You had been mentioning games above 80 and magically decided to jump to 85 instead... interesting, no? You also arbitrarily decided to pick two years, so you could leave out a ton of games released for PS5 whereas the PS3 struggled more in Years 1 and 2.

You also left off Final Shape, The Last of Us P1 Remake, TLOUP2 Remastered, Horizon Zero Dawn Remastered.

The bias is strong with you brother.

Fucking remasters? Give me a break. I also not placed HD Fury for PS3 list ("DLC"):

But this game is new content compared to remakes and remasters ^

You can make lists with games 80+, through whole PS3 and PS5 gen - feel free to do that.

I picked year 3 and 4 because this is what we just experienced with PS5.

Now compare PS4 in 2013-2015 versus PS5 in 2020-2022.
BTW, 2 versus 3 is not 50% better.

It is. I typed this for fun but: 2=100%, 3=150%.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

You arbitrarily picked 85. Had you picked 90 it would have been 3 to 2.

You had been mentioning games above 80 and magically decided to jump to 85 instead... interesting, no? You also arbitrarily decided to pick two years, so you could leave out a ton of games released for PS5 whereas the PS3 struggled more in Years 1 and 2.

You also left off Final Shape, The Last of Us P1 Remake, TLOUP2 Remastered, Horizon Zero Dawn Remastered.

The bias is strong with you brother.

Just curious if you really think adding 2 remasters, 1 remake and what is Final Shape, you mean the Destiny DLC bolsters your argument of “great games”

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Just curious if you really think adding 2 remasters, 1 remake and what is Final Shape, you mean the Destiny DLC bolsters your argument of “great games”

A game is a game is a game is a game.

It's interesting which remasters and remakes are considered valuable and which aren't.

And yes, you might not like it, but Final Shape was a major expansion and the way the game works, is just as big as some whole new games. It's just not convenient to your argument.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Fucking remasters? Give me a break. I also not placed HD Fury for PS3 list ("DLC"):

But this game is new content compared to remakes and remasters ^

You can make lists with games 80+, through whole PS3 and PS5 gen - feel free to do that.

I picked year 3 and 4 because this is what we just experienced with PS5.



It is. I typed this for fun but: 2=100%, 3=150%.

You could have just as easily picked 80 rating games from years 1-4. You realize that?

You cherry picked and you got caught doing it.

 

[nial]

It is.

Myy brain melted in that one smh, but will you do the comparison?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

A game is a game is a game is a game.

It's interesting which remasters and remakes are considered valuable and which aren't.

And yes, you might not like it, but Final Shape was a major expansion and the way the game works, is just as big as some whole new games. It's just not convenient to your argument.

It is totally my opinion and this whole thread is based on ones opinions but yeah none of this you mention helps the PS5 in my eyes

I will say they have some nice shots coming up to change my mind in Ghost of Yotei, Death Stranding 2 and even Wolverine (But I fear that game might get fucked up)

 

[bighugeguns]

Sony needs to start genuinely scaring games journalists, put the foot down, on behalf of their own and third parties, they'll kill Playstation with their endless unwanted bullshit.

At least give the PS6 a fair shot. Sony marketing and PR need to restructure and grow some balls.

I don't know Hulst but I hope for Playstation's sake he isn't a pussy.

 

[Bojji]

You could have just as easily picked 80 rating games from years 1-4. You realize that?

You cherry picked and you got caught doing it.

Year 1-4, 85+ MC (that's what HQ means for me), published by Sony:

PS5:

* - Demon's Souls shouldn't be here, it has completely different graphics but gameplay is pretty much 1:1 with 2009 version. TLoU1 remake has different gameplay than 2013 version.

PS3:

Yep, years 1-2 for PS5 add a lot to PS5 list.

PS3 had good 2011-2013, we will see how PS5 compares in few years...

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Come on bro, that's not true at all.

Which games look worse?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Even if you throw MC scores out me personally I had more fun with those games on the PS3 then I have had with the recent PS5 games outside of AB which was a real treat imo

Helldivers 2? Even winning MP GOTY for me its by far not the best shooter out there. Looking at Steam it has 50k players in it and is getting cooked by a lot of much older shooters.

Stellar Blasé? Simply not my kind of game so that’s on me

RoTR? Generic Ghost of Tsushima (Which I thoroughly enjoyed)

Opinions and all of that.

I cannot stand Call of Duty and would much rather play HD2 any day of the week.

Anyone can go through a list of high quality games and hand waive them and say "not for me". That's fine. It doesn't need to appeal to you. Sales/Ratings show it appeals to a LOT of people though.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Year 1-4, 85+ MC (that's what HQ means for me), published by Sony:

PS5:

* - Demon's Souls shouldn't be here, it has completely different graphics but gameplay is pretty much 1:1 with 2009 version. TLoU1 remake has different gameplay than 2013 version.

PS3:

Yep, years 1-2 for PS5 add a lot to PS5 list.

PS3 had good 2011-2013, we will see how PS5 compares in few years...

It's still very telling to me that you think Demon's Souls shouldn't count and you still left off Destiny 2 Final Shape and other remasters, but you for some reason kept on your list Wipeout Fury HD and Super Stardust HD and even then your comparison proves that there isn't this massive drop off that you've been implying despite games taking much longer to develop now.

 

[Bojji]

It's still very telling to me that you think Demon's Souls shouldn't count and you still left off Destiny 2 Final Shape and other remasters, but you for some reason kept on your list Wipeout Fury HD and Super Stardust HD and even then your comparison proves that there isn't this massive drop off that you've been implying despite games taking much longer to develop now.

Wipeout HD and SS HD are new game designed for PS3. Fury is expansion, and PS4 got actual remaster of Wipeout.

Remasters and remakes that have 1:1 gameplay can fuck off.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Wipeout HD and SS HD are new game designed for PS3. Fury is expansion, and PS4 got actual remaster of Wipeout.

Remasters and remakes that have 1:1 gameplay can fuck off.

Super Stardust HD is a remake...

You can't stay consistent for anything...

 

[Bojji]

Super Stardust HD is a remake...

You can't stay consistent for anything...

Guess why TLoU1 is on the list? Because it's different enough than 2013 version.

Same is true with SSHD vs. 1994 game...

 

[bender]

You could have just as easily picked 80 rating games from years 1-4. You realize that?

You cherry picked and you got caught doing it.

He's probably a Heavy Rain fan so based his criteria around that but in turn also ruined his credibility.

 

[Bojji]

He's probably a Heavy Rain fan so based his criteria around that but in turn also ruined his credibility.

Heavy Rain is good! Same is true for Detroit. Beyond sucks...

 

[bender]

Heavy Rain is good! Same is true for Detroit. Beyond sucks...

 

[Topher]

So how does PS5 rank when including Xbox? Personally I'd say only 360 beats it at this point. One thing to say PS5 is the "worst" PlayStation, but throw in competitors into the mix and you have a very different discussion.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Opinions and all of that.

I cannot stand Call of Duty and would much rather play HD2 any day of the week.

Anyone can go through a list of high quality games and hand waive them and say "not for me". That's fine. It doesn't need to appeal to you. Sales/Ratings show it appeals to a LOT of people though.

Just like Call of Duty is the top seller but doesn’t appeal to you and I dont blame anyone who would rather play any game over another

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Year 1-4, 85+ MC (that's what HQ means for me), published by Sony:

PS5:

* - Demon's Souls shouldn't be here, it has completely different graphics but gameplay is pretty much 1:1 with 2009 version. TLoU1 remake has different gameplay than 2013 version.

PS3:

Yep, years 1-2 for PS5 add a lot to PS5 list.

PS3 had good 2011-2013, we will see how PS5 compares in few years...

PS3:

2006
Resistance Fall of Man - 86
MotorStorm - 84

2007
Lair - 53
Ratchet And Clank: ToD - 89
Heavenly Sword - 79
Uncharted - 88

2008
Little Big Planet - 95
MotorStorm Pacific Rift - 82
Resistance 2 - 87

2009
Killzone 2 - 91
Demons Souls - 89
Uncharted 2 - Among Thieves - 96

2010
Heavy Rain -87
God of War 3 - 92
Gran Turismo 5 - 84

------------------------------------------

PS5:

2020
Astro's Playroom - 83
Spider-Man Miles Morales - 85
Demons Souls - 92
Sackboy - 79

2021
Returnal - 86
Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart - 88

2022
Horizon Forbidden West - 88
Gran Turismo 7 - 87
The Last of Us Part 1 - 89
God of War Ragnarok - 94

2023
Spider-Man 2 - 90

2024
Helldivers 2 - 82
Rise of the Ronin - 76
Stellar Blade - 81
Astro Bot - 94

There's some flaws with your cherry picking. First, metacritic scores decrease over time, not increase. Do you think Heavenly Sword is a better game than Rise of the Ronin? Or Resistance 2 a better game than Helldivers 2? Absolutely not. Standards are much higher now. Secondly, the sales of these PS3 games was around a few hundred thousand at most during the launch period NPDs. These games were NOT widely played or anywhere near as successful as games like Horizon and God of War which sell 8M-10M+ within a year. There's a reason they don't make Killzone games, they did not sell. Third, games take much longer to develop. So you're not getting games as frequently as you did - games these days are much longer and more complex and take a lot longer to develop.

Continue thinking PS5 lineup is shit though, the sales reception proves you wrong. I don't think the PS3 lineup was poor either. There's some great games in there for sure, but none of them sold anywhere near to many of the games on the PS5 list. And we never got any games anywhere near as big as God of War Ragnarok or Horizon FW, these games were largely 4-8 hour titles in comparison. I could have also included exclusives like Final Fantasy 16 or Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth, which were PS5 only, but I didn't because they weren't published by Sony. How that makes a difference between that and say 2nd party titles like Rise of the Ronin, I don't know.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Just like Call of Duty is the top seller but doesn’t appeal to you and I dont blame anyone who would rather play any game over another

Precisely. But I don't look at it and say it doesn't matter, obviously it's a massive game with huge relevance and people like it.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

I did some comparison with PS3. Year 3 and 4 of both consoles with games with MC 85+ published by Sony

PS3:

*

* - published by Sony in Japan

VS. PS5

Full gen vs half gen

 

[Bojji]

Full gen vs half gen

Year 3, 4 for both.

On second list you have first 4 years of both.

PS5 had decent year 1, 2 but 3 - 4 were shit.