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[James Sawyer Ford]

Damn I didnt even see SM2>MGS4 lol ... thats Senjutsage levels of insanity

MGS4 is the worst game in the entire series, criticized heavily for its absurd amount of cutscenes, bland environments and outdated gameplay mechanics

Again this revisionist history is funny, all the people that hated on these ps3 games suddenly love them

 

[Gexxy1]

I always loved MGS4. One of my favorite games of all time.

 

[Bernardougf]

MGS4 is the worst game in the entire series, criticized heavily for its absurd amount of cutscenes, bland environments and outdated gameplay mechanics

Again this revisionist history is funny, all the people that hated on these ps3 games suddenly love them

Sure little buddy ...

 

[MagnesD3]

I always loved MGS4. One of my favorite games of all time.

MGS4 is incredible, my only complaints are its cutscenes can be too long and the Beauty Group story wise are nothing until they are defeated and Drebin pulls up their wikipedia lol.

 

[Bernardougf]

I always loved MGS4. One of my favorite games of all time.

Yes I loved also .. while is not as good as the other 3 .. still is a very good game.. 5 though I couldn't stand it .. just hate most open world games unfortunately with few exceptions

 

[Dafegamer]

Ugh.

OG GoW Trilogy is all better then modern GoW
Horizon FW is ass in everything but graphics. Not even close.
Killzone MP is some of my favorite online of all time.
MGS4 is better then Spiderman but despite thinking Spiderman is lame as fuck I still love the 3 games we've gotten.
I think Uncharted is better but Astro Bot was amazing.
Resistance is underrated and I didn't like returnal that much
You're right for sure on this even if I don't like any of them.
GT7 is better then GT5, but I'm a GT6 apologist and think it's better then both.

This all comes down to preferences though of course. PS3 is my favorite PS console besides 2.

Original GOW trilogy better than the new One? ok I've heard all in this thread. It went from a poor mans devil may cry series to actual respect series with GOW PS4 . Deeper mechanics, less button mashing, less cringe worthy revenge story that overstayed it's welcome and geared to shock value edgyness as the initial series progressed

 

[Dafegamer]

Sure little buddy ...

He's literally right tho, that was like the biggest talking point if you go back to the original threads on Neogaf. Main thing I took from it was Kojima wanted to make a movie, or people trolling the scene with the microwave. Some weird revisionist stuff going on here for sure. Now people will say most people didn't criticize the floaty controls LBP if this revisionist shit goes on (In personally love the series but these are facts that actually happened on gaf OT here)

 

[Dafegamer]

No goalposts were moved. PS3 had a diverse library while PS5 has significantly narrowed it's focus.

I literally listed you over 20 good to great games from before 2010 (the date you picked) and only 3 were military shooters.

Where did I say the bold?

Far worse. PS3 had a huge library with every genre well represented. Now most of their games follow the same boring formula

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but you would be lying to yourself if you posted this, or at least you wouldn't this with a straight face. During that era, almost every company wanted that Call of Duty money for some reason, defining the era as the gray/brown military shooter era. Or maybe I red this wrong and you didn't talk about the creativity compared to nowadays, but I think it's pretty factual that at least GAAS is more varied in genres it does things.

 

[Rawbutt Jellybean]

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but you would be lying to yourself if you posted this, or at least you wouldn't this with a straight face. During that era, almost every company wanted that Call of Duty money for some reason, defining the era as the gray/brown military shooter era. Or maybe I red this wrong and you didn't talk about the creativity compared to nowadays, but I think it's pretty factual that at least GAAS is more varied in genres it does things.

I gave you a long list of good games covering many genres and you just keep ignoring it.

 

[Dafegamer]

I gave you a long list of good games covering many genres and you just keep ignoring it.

That's not the point. The point is the goalpost, then saying it doesn't matter it still better than GAAS no matter the creativity. I didn't ignore the other games, I pointed out the "better creativity" claim, that Sony relies on same formula nowadays compared to ps3, which again is also another odd claim as ps3 relied way more on sequels with same mechanics(infamous 1-2, lbp 1-3, resistance 1-3, killzone 2-3, uncharted 1-3 etc) make no mistake I didn't ignore. I just wanted to call these specific claims out.

 

[Rawbutt Jellybean]

That's not the point. The point is the goalpost, then saying it doesn't matter it still better than GAAS no matter the creativity. I didn't ignore the other games, I pointed out the "better creativity" claim, that Sony relies on same formula nowadays compared to ps3, which again is also another odd claim as ps3 relied way more on sequels with same mechanics(infamous 1-2, lbp 1-3, resistance 1-3, killzone 2-3, uncharted 1-3 etc) make no mistake I didn't ignore. I just wanted to call these specific claims out.

Why would I need to move goalposts when my claim has yet to be successfully refuted? The actual claim, not your interpretation.

I even defended it by giving you a long, diverse list of good games from only what you called the "abysmal PS3 days" of pre-2010. Who cares if a lot of the games are sequels? Most of the flagship series now are sequels except there's fewer IPs and they're smashed into this 3rd person cinematic open world action genre. 3 years of the "abysmal PS3 days" > 4 years of PS5

 

[Radical_3d]

He's literally right tho, that was like the biggest talking point if you go back to the original threads on Neogaf. Main thing I took from it was Kojima wanted to make a movie, or people trolling the scene with the microwave. Some weird revisionist stuff going on here for sure. Now people will say most people didn't criticize the floaty controls LBP if this revisionist shit goes on (In personally love the series but these are facts that actually happened on gaf OT here)

GAF was infested with Xbox fans back then, up into the moderation team. Those time of American culture are thankfully long gone UuU

 

[REDRZA MWS]

Not like his wrong those games sell best on PlayStation expect for GTA6 since its not out yet.

Ignorance. Where the title sells more has zero to do with being “exclusive”, that’s just flat out wrong.

Games like GTA6 and CoD are massive revenue generators. They are on the platforms that can run them, they are connected via cross play, meaning total players/consumers are spending money, playing the same damn game on basically the same damn device. All this stupidity about fanboy console wars is so fucking tired and childish. The Series X and PS5 are basically exactly the same consoles. X86 AMD SoC, of course customizations for both companies, same amount and type of RAM, same standard SSD. This isn’t a matter of anyone piece of hardware being “better”, it’s the overwhelming POPULARITY of the PlayStation brand. Nobody has ever or will ever question that.

 

[PixelatedBeast]

Wow, crazy how this thread has damn near 30 pages when this is the most lucrative generation for a Playstation console, while the Xbox is dying so they're porting its games to every device.

Xbox gamers begging for Helldivers, PC gamers begging for Bloodborne, hell even Nintendo fans started building a narrative about Sony porting more games after getting a damn Legos port of Horizon. This place is too funny.

 

[RafterXL]

Other than feels I don't see how you could argue otherwise. The closest generation to being this bad is the PS3 and it had significantly more games, significantly better games and it's not even really close.

This generation has been terrible for consoles all around.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

Worst thing about PS3 gen was everyone shoehorning in online multiplayer modes as it was the beginning of that weird thinking of hours equals more value for a game. It just resulted in huge wastes of time in development that could have been spent making the single players longer and better. Now we still got plenty of great single player stuff even after that trend caught on and stuff like resistance 2 co-op was still great but it definitely is what could have been had they not all started chasing COD money

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

Wow, crazy how this thread has damn near 30 pages when this is the most lucrative generation for a Playstation console, while the Xbox is dying so they're porting its games to every device.

Xbox gamers begging for Helldivers, PC gamers begging for Bloodborne, hell even Nintendo fans started building a narrative about Sony porting more games after getting a damn Legos port of Horizon. This place is too funny.

Momentum and competition are a thing. The weakness of Xbox you mentioned and coming off PS4 success without a major screwup to squander it like PS3 had with PS2 were always gonna make this a lucrative gen. Plus stuff completely out of their control or unrelated to the quality of the console like huge micro transaction third party games being lucrative on PS4 and PS5 still is a huge contributor. Not to mention they didn't charge for online back on PS3 so that alone is gonna make a gulf for them monetarily.


Not to mention their monetary success isn't the same as the player experience. On the user end, PS3 being a massive financial loss on hardware for Sony doesn't effect us. On the monetary end for the company that's a disaster

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

MGS4 is the worst game in the entire series, criticized heavily for its absurd amount of cutscenes, bland environments and outdated gameplay mechanics

Again this revisionist history is funny, all the people that hated on these ps3 games suddenly love them

And spiderman 4 is lambasted for it's writing and lack of innovation from the previous game including fumbling the story of the main character to put Miles Morales over.

Besides people loved mgs4 and it has a better metacritic and the same meta user score as Spidey 2. I bought it at launch and that final fight is the most epic way to conclude a series with the music and health bars going through the 4 main games as liquid and snake slug it out.

 

[Bernardougf]

He's literally right tho, that was like the biggest talking point if you go back to the original threads on Neogaf. Main thing I took from it was Kojima wanted to make a movie, or people trolling the scene with the microwave. Some weird revisionist stuff going on here for sure. Now people will say most people didn't criticize the floaty controls LBP if this revisionist shit goes on (In personally love the series but these are facts that actually happened on gaf OT here)

It was definitely the worst MGS to that point ... but on its own still is miles and miles better than SM2 and its bad writing and woke bullshit.

Its like saying well this is the worst primeRib I had this year therefore this pieace of shit is better than it.

MGS4 is worst than 1-3 ? Sure.. is also better than SM2.. and shouldn't even be a discussion.. this is revisionist history.

 

[Hookshot]

Wow, crazy how this thread has damn near 30 pages when this is the most lucrative generation for a Playstation console, while the Xbox is dying so they're porting its games to every device.

Xbox gamers begging for Helldivers, PC gamers begging for Bloodborne, hell even Nintendo fans started building a narrative about Sony porting more games after getting a damn Legos port of Horizon. This place is too funny.

Sony are releasing their 5th game for Nintendo Switch in March and that will be the 21st game they've published for it. Porting games doesn't seem that far fetched.

 

[Lysandros]

PS3 did this with 256MB VRAM and only 150 GigaFlops (6 SPUs).

The PS4 is a lot more powerful (10x) than the PS3, let alone my PC (32 TeraFlops)

At the subject of comparing gigaflops while being fair at it; what the heck happened to PS3's GPU the RSX, swallowed by a black hole?... It had ~250 Glfops in itself in addition to cell. And no, PS4 wasn't nearly ten times as powerful at the whole system basis, in fact CELL was much more capable than the Jaguar at some processes, it literally acted as a second GPU.

 

[Negotiator]

At the subject of comparing gigaflops while being fair at it; what the heck happened to PS3's GPU the RSX, swallowed by a black hole?... It had ~250 Glfops in itself in addition to cell. And no, PS4 wasn't nearly ten times as powerful at the whole system basis, in fact CELL was much more capable than the Jaguar at some processes, it literally acted as a second GPU.

I'm talking about compute flops (Cell SPUs, GPGPU/CUDA/OpenCL). Are you going to run physics (Uncharted 3 ocean simulation) on RSX?

But feel free to also add fixed-function units (TMUs, ROPs etc), then maybe you'll reach the mythical 2TF figure:

ps: PS4 is 10 times more powerful, not just by raw numbers, but also due to efficiency.

 

[Lysandros]

I'm talking about compute flops (Cell SPUs, GPGPU/CUDA/OpenCL). Are you going to run physics (Uncharted 3 ocean simulation) on RSX?

But feel free to also add fixed-function units (TMUs, ROPs etc), then maybe you'll reach the mythical 2TF figure:

ps: PS4 is 10 times more powerful, not just by raw numbers, but also due to efficiency.

No one is talking about 2 TF (?!). You just ignored the whole damn PS3 GPU including its rated (real) compute metric and compared it to the whole PS4 system where most its compute throughput is coming from its GPU due to large difference in architecture compared to previous generation. This is faulty methodology at a basic level. PS4 is maybe around 5 times as powerful as a closer estimate. Besides, Cell could absolutely murder Jaguar at some physic processes. PS4 GPU (as GPGPU enchanced as it is via async etc.) won't/can't divert all of its 1.84 TF resources to physic calculations in real gaming scenarios either, it still has to render the scene, shade it etc.

 

[NorthernSword]

Easily the Ps5 is the worse!
Ps3>ps1>ps2>ps4>ps5
what's so funny? Ps3 had the best games of all Sony consoles. come on Uncharted 2 ? God of War 3 , resistance 3, little big planet! you kids don't know good games if it would hit you in the face !

Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, Ninja Gaiden 1 and 2, MGS3, a ton of Yakuza games. etc... PS3 was amazing. 2 is probably the best overall but 3 is under appreciated. The best PS5 game is a PS3 game remake.

 

[adamsapple]

Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, Ninja Gaiden 1 and 2, MGS3, a ton of Yakuza games. etc... PS3 was amazing. 2 is probably the best overall but 3 is under appreciated. The best PS5 game is a PS3 game remake.

MGS 4 *

But, yes, your point is understood.

 

[Negotiator]

No one is talking about 2 TF (?!). You just ignored the whole damn PS3 GPU including its rated (real) compute metric and compared it to the whole PS4 system where most its compute throughput is coming from its GPU due to large difference in architecture compared to previous generation. This is faulty methodology at a basic level. PS4 is maybe around 5 times as powerful as a closer estimate. Besides, Cell could absolutely murder Jaguar at some physic processes. PS4 GPU (as GPGPU enchanced as it is via async etc.) won't/can't divert all of its 1.84 TF resources to physic calculations in real gaming scenarios either, it still has to render the scene, shade it etc.

You forget that Cerny had said it's possible to use the PS4 GPU in 100% GPGPU mode (no traditional rasterization, no ROPs usage). Some games do that (Tomorrow Children, maybe Resogun too).

RSX is just for pixel/vertex shaders, you cannot run physics on that GPU. I was talking about physics (Uncharted 3 ocean simulation) and nothing else. Why are you confused?

PS4 is a lot more powerful (let alone the PS5) and yet, Uncharted 2-3 was the peak of the series. That was my whole point. We could have had more impressive setpieces on PS4, but we didn't.

 

[bender]

MGS4 is the worst game in the entire series, criticized heavily for its absurd amount of cutscenes, bland environments and outdated gameplay mechanics

Again this revisionist history is funny, all the people that hated on these ps3 games suddenly love them

 

[adamsapple]

 

[bender]

 

[ArtHands]

Wow, crazy how this thread has damn near 30 pages when this is the most lucrative generation for a Playstation console, while the Xbox is dying so they're porting its games to every device.

Xbox gamers begging for Helldivers, PC gamers begging for Bloodborne, hell even Nintendo fans started building a narrative about Sony porting more games after getting a damn Legos port of Horizon. This place is too funny.

Mostly because Sony has started to release games on other platforms.

Like Spider-Man 2, The Last of Us Part II, Stellar Blade, Rise of Ronin, Freedom War Remastered, Marathon on PC this year alone, who know what else they will have.

 

[CartesianMan]

PS1 establihed the brand, Ps2 elevated the brand. The PS3 created the PlayStation blockbusters we know. The PS4 elevated this. What did the PS5 do? It removed loading times—wooow, I guess!
This is like Mark Cerny fapping machine 5Pro at this point. Give the games or allow to instal Stea OS on PS5

 

[DenchDeckard]

James Sawyer Ford were you an Xbox 360 fan or something in the ps3 era?

I guess you didn't enjoy the ps3 and were actively saying it wa a terrible gen at the time?

I think the ps3 wipes the floor with the ps5 and I'm not taking any of your comparisons.

Apart from gt7...gt7 rules.

 

[ArtHands]

PS1 establihed the brand, Ps2 elevated the brand. The PS3 created the PlayStation blockbusters we know. The PS4 elevated this. What did the PS5 do? It removed loading times—wooow, I guess!
This is like Mark Cerny fapping machine 5Pro at this point. Give the games or allow to instal Stea OS on PS5

PS5 pollinate the Playstation blockbusters to more platforms

 

[Negotiator]

James Sawyer Ford were you an Xbox 360 fan or something in the ps3 era?

I guess you didn't enjoy the ps3 and were actively saying it wa a terrible gen at the time?

I think the ps3 wipes the floor with the ps5 and I'm not taking any of your comparisons.

Apart from gt7...gt7 rules.

I bet he was.

Many people consider the PS4 to be Sony's "XBOX 360" moment.

 

[GamesDontSuck]

Probably the worst generation of Sony's offering so far.

Ps2 being the best of course. The ps3 was a little weird but it had some good heavy hitters such as mgs4 and the uncharted series. The ps5 generation seems a little flat compared.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

James Sawyer Ford were you an Xbox 360 fan or something in the ps3 era?

I guess you didn't enjoy the ps3 and were actively saying it wa a terrible gen at the time?

I think the ps3 wipes the floor with the ps5 and I'm not taking any of your comparisons.

Apart from gt7...gt7 rules.

Early in the Gen - 360

Mid to late Gen - PS3

First few years of PS5 >>>> PS3 in both first party quality and sales, this is undeniable really.

PS3 isn’t bad, but it’s the worst gen for Sony.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Early in the Gen - 360

Mid to late Gen - PS3

First few years of PS5 >>>> PS3 in both first party quality and sales, this is undeniable really.

PS3 isn’t bad, but it’s the worst gen for Sony.

Yeah, I was PS3 day one. I personally feel the PS3 gen was better than PS5. Legit, I think I am lucky to turn my PS5 on twice a year. Last year was abysmal.

But, I get it. I am waiting for games like stellar blade on PC.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Yeah, I was PS3 day one. I personally feel the PS3 gen was better than PS5. Legit, I think I am lucky to turn my PS5 on twice a year. Last year was abysmal.

But, I get it. I am waiting for games like stellar blade on PC.

That’s because you moved to PC, and you’re begging for PC ports lol

Has nothing to do with PS5 itself

 

[DenchDeckard]

That’s because you moved to PC, and you’re begging for PC ports lol

Has nothing to do with PS5 itself

I was on PC before xbox and playstation existed. lol I'm from the days of 386/486 PCs.

Its this gen that Sony has started porting all their games to PC.

 

[TGO]

For those that have been gaming over 30 years this gen is pretty much summed up with

And everyone who thinks this gen is great is like

Which isn't actually bad but out side of a few gems...

 

[Markio128]

My god, there are some miserable sods in here

 

[Negotiator]

I was on PC before xbox and playstation existed. lol I'm from the days of 386/486 PCs.

Its this gen that Sony has started porting all their games to PC.

I've been using PCs since 386 too (Dave Dangerous, Wolfenstein 3D), but I enjoyed a lot the DX9 era on PC... you know, games like Far Cry 1 (you could call it Uncharted FPS edition -> American protagonist, lush jungle, mutants).

Maybe that's why I enjoy the DX9 console era (PS360) so much... Switch too, since it's closer to that era.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I've been using PCs since 386 too (Dave Dangerous, Wolfenstein 3D), but I enjoyed a lot the DX9 era on PC... you know, games like Far Cry 1 (you could call it Uncharted FPS edition -> American protagonist, lush jungle, mutants).

Maybe that's why I enjoy the DX9 console era (PS360) so much... Switch too, since it's closer to that era.

I bought an AMD 9800 Pro graphics card just for the original far cry on PC. Man, that felt so exciting and special at the time. The only AMD GPU I've owned for myself.

I also cant forget that my first mail order game was a copy of Max Payne on PC. I couldnt believe it just got posted through my letterbox. I think it was the first PC game i bought that came in a DVD case too.

 

[David B]

The PS3 was the worst for sure. All third party developers hated it. Not only did it do PowerPC, it did a core to core 7 times PowerPC. All 3rd party game groups hated it and didn't take advantage of it. Xbox 360 did powerPC as well, but they did it with 3 main cores so the writting was similar to x86 processing/writing. PS5 nothing wrong. Just now though Sony isn't making enough new games, they seem to be like relaunch The Last of Us as part 1, ok now The Last of Us 2 as Part 2. It's like OMG, same games, relauched, how lame. Sony really needs to start making new games, no refreshes of old games, we hate that. But overall I would say PS3 because all the developers hated it and refused to write code for each structure as it was suppose to be. Like movement and gun shots on one core, graphics on one core, land and house graphics on another core, it just was way too much write out for all the developers and they really hated it, so of course most games were always better on Xbox 360 version.

 

[Hollowpoint5557]

It has cemented itself as the worst for me. Had a PS5 sold it. Got one a year later and sold it again. Went to PC. Trash gen.

 

[bender]

First few years of PS5 >>>> PS3 in both first party quality and sales, this is undeniable really.

PS3 had Minna No Golf 5 in the first year and the PS5 has yet to deliver a entry in the series four years on so no, the PS5 can't compare to the PS3.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I was on PC before xbox and playstation existed. lol I'm from the days of 386/486 PCs.

Its this gen that Sony has started porting all their games to PC.

Yeah and you should factor all those first party and third party games as being part of PS5 Gen because they are, regardless of whether you play them on PC

PC didn’t have nearly as many console games in the ps3 era

 

[Negotiator]

PC didn’t have nearly as many console games in the ps3 era

It didn't, because it was a transitory phase back then (unreliable/pesky disc-based DRM such as SafeDisc/SecuROM -> Steam/digital marketplaces). I remember some Ubisoft PC ports (Prince of Persia) not getting DLC as a punishment.

These days piracy is lower (low enough that they don't care that much), digital marketplaces (from Steam to GOG) have prevailed and publishers love higher margins (vs physical media). Capcom already makes more money from PC than consoles, IIRC.

IMHO, I can kiss consoles goodbye as soon as they ditch physical media. Nintendo will stand their ground longer than Sony and MS.

The current phase reminds me of the 80s... back then consoles had declined (Atari VCS shovelware flooding the market + home computers rising). Nintendo saved the day back then with NES.

We're in a similar phase right now and if consoles keep getting more and more expensive (you need nearly $/€1000 for the full PS5 Pro package) and their library is not enticing enough (PS store is already being flooded by cheap Platinum trophy shovelware -> during the PS3 era only AAA/full price games had the privilege of a Platinum trophy, not indies/shovelware), more and more people will switch to PC. It's inevitable.

I pity AMD though, because they have a steady income by selling semi-custom APUs to Sony/MS.

Their PC GPU marketshare is abysmal (10%) compared to nVidia. They're doing better in CPUs though, but that's because Intel has been left behind in lithography (7-10nm vs TSMC 3-4nm).

If Trump makes Intel great again, AMD will be in serious trouble (this has happened in the past, Intel had Pentium 4, while AMD had dual-core K8 64-bit CPUs and then Intel released Core CPUs).

TL;DR: the whole tech/gaming market is full of repeating cycles.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

We're in a similar phase right now and if consoles keep getting more and more expensive (you need nearly $/€1000 for the full PS5 Pro package) and their library is not enticing enough (PS store is already being flooded by cheap Platinum trophy shovelware -> during the PS3 era only AAA/full price games had the privilege of a Platinum trophy, not indies/shovelware), more and more people will switch to PC. It's inevitable.

No it’s not. PCs also are more expensive, the affordability gap hasn’t narrowed, if anything it’s widened as margins on PC components have soared

 

[HogIsland]

ps5 is a better console than ps3, but this generation is much worse than the ps3 generation for actual games.